Category: Transforming Trauma Podcast

As awareness of complex trauma has grown, so has the need for leaders in the field to share their wisdom and tips for helping individuals, families and communities resolve complex trauma.  Over the past 5 years and 150 episodes, the Transforming Trauma podcast has been a platform for these voices of inspiration, hope, guidance and support. 

To celebrate our 150th episode. CTTC Director and NARM® Senior Trainer Brad Kammer joins host Emily Ruth to reminisce about the inspiring guests who have graced the 2024 season and the many heartfelt conversations that have shaped the show since its inception in January 2020.

“We try to balance getting people that are really well known in the field, like Gabor Maté, Judith Herman, Stephen Porges and Dick Schwartz, as well as people that have trained with us, and are maybe less well known or not known at all,” says Brad, referring to the catalog of diverse guests that Transforming Trauma has assembled over the last four years. While every single guest has brought so much to our community, Brad and Emily highlight several that have inspired them along the way.

This year, for example, we had our second and most expansive conversation with Dr. Jonathan Shedler, a leader in the current field of psychodynamic psychology. We also had a compelling episode featuring Alison Rapping, discussing her impactful work providing wrap-around services to formerly incarcerated women. The common feature of all of our guests is that in some way they are working to support the transformation of trauma.

Brad shared that he felt so excited to have Dr. Judith Herman on in 2024, a legend in the field of trauma. “She’s someone that’s influenced all of us,” he says. “To have the opportunity to hear from her at this stage of her career was such a gift.” Likewise, the conversation with Dr. Nancy McWilliams, another giant in the field of psychology, demonstrated the lineage of a teacher passing on wisdom from her 50-year career to multiple generations of practitioners.

Some episodes feature a guest or topic that speaks to us in ways we might not have anticipated. Emily cites her conversation with Dr. Karen Maroda as particularly activating in this way. “There was some challenging material in there in a way that really landed for me that I know I needed.” Dr. Maroda’s focus on countertransference for psychotherapists becomes so important for anyone working with relational issues and trauma.  Emily was also moved by her conversation with Dr. Daniel Morehead and his invitation to greet neurodivergence with curiosity and humility.

Brad recalls his episode with Jessica Britt as an especially enlightening conversation. He appreciated their shared interest in the interplay of psychology and spirituality, and the alignment between what Jessica teaches, Diamond Approach, and what Brad teaches, the NeuroAffective Relational Model. 

Laura Sorte and Kami Black are therapists who have championed trauma-informed approaches at their respective residential facilities in New York and Utah. Their episodes highlight the potential of NARM to change systems of healing.

Dr. Nadine Macaluso is a trauma-bond expert with a rather famous backstory, being the ex-wife of the real-life “Wolf on Wall Street”. Nadine’s passion for supporting women through similar situations is what makes her a favorite repeat guest.

Chloé Valdary, a public educator and anti-racism activist, introduced to our community her groundbreaking approach to organizational diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives, called the Theory of Enchantment.  Blending social justice with depth psychology and popular culture, we have since integrated Chloé’s framework into our organizational structure at the Complex Trauma Training Center. 

If intentionality is the show’s guiding light, then courage is its path. We’re honored to have held space for deeply personal journeys of grief, pain, healing, and recovery, as evidenced by Brad’s conversation with human rights campaigner Yasmine Mohammed. Brad was impacted by her book Unveiled, and says, “she’s someone I’ve looked up to for quite a while now, and I was just so inspired.”

We also learn so much from those who find their courage in grief, like Heidi Winn and Adam Angel, who shared about their parenting journeys and losses.  Brad was also deeply honored and moved to share a heartfelt conversation with Bill Loke as he was navigating his last few months of life. Bill passed shortly after their conversation and his wisdom, heart and soul lives on as part of Transforming Trauma.

Transforming Trauma has many people to thank for its success. We’d like to thank Dr. Laurence Heller, creator of NARM, who has been a frequent guest and also taught many people who have been featured on the podcast. A special thank you goes out to the behind-the-scenes folks, including the team at the Creative Imposter Studios, Executive Producer Brad Kammer, and our wonderful host Emily Ruth.  We look forward to the next 150 episodes and thank all of you for joining us. 

EPISODES MENTIONED 

2023: The Podcast Year In Review with NARM Training Director Brad Kammer and Host Emily Ruth

A Pathway to Peace in the Fight Against Oppression and Religious Trauma with Yasmine Mohammed

What Good Psychotherapy Looks Like With Dr. Jonathan Shedler

Emotional Engagement in the Therapeutic Relationship With Dr. Karen Maroda

Addiction Recovery within a Trauma-Informed Community with Laura Sorte of Release Recovery

Empowering Adolescent Females in Residential Treatment With Kami Black of ROOTs Transition

Post-Traumatic Growth for Women Leaving Prison with Alison Rapping

Self-Acceptance in the Aftermath of Trauma Bonds with Dr. Nadine Macaluso

An Adventure in Consciousness Through the Diamond Approach with Jessica Britt

From Pain to Purpose: Navigating the Pressures of Fatherhood, Isolation and Loss with Adam Angel

A Mother’s Journey into Finding Effulgence through the NARM Process of Resolving Grief with Heidi Winn

Men’s Groups, Toxic Masculinity and Developmental Trauma with Dr. Martin Lemon

Listening to What Survivors Need to Address Sexual Trauma and Complex PTSD with Dr. Judith Herman

Personality and the Alchemy of Therapeutic Change with Nancy McWilliams, PhD

Love as a Pathway for Resolving Conflict and Bigotry with Chloé Valdary

Honoring Neurodivergence With Curiosity and Humility With Daniel Morehead, MD

Authenticity, Freedom, and Living More Intentionally with Bill Loke

Healing Complex Trauma Through Music with Nick Larson of Proxima Parada

The Power of Creative Expression in Healing Trauma with Jeanette LeBlanc

NARM & Heartfulness with Dr. Laurence Heller and Brad Kammer

ADDITIONAL MENTIONS

Free Hearts Free Minds

Release Recovery

ROOTs Transitions

Run Like Hell: A Therapist’s Guide To Recognizing, Escaping, And Healing From Trauma Bonds

Diamond Approach

Esalen Institute

Proxima Parada

NARM Training Institute

Head Heart Biz Therapy

The Creative Impostor Studios

The best time to work on becoming an emotionally mature partner is before entering an intimate relationship. That guidance is especially important for people who have a history of relational and developmental trauma. The second best opportunity for growth arrives in the form of triggers – those adverse emotional responses that blur the distinction between past (our childhood experiences) and present (our adult partnerships). One psychotherapist invites us to think of triggers as trailheads, often uncomfortable but informative starting points in shifting deep-seated and problematic relational patterns.

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth welcomes Dr. David Richo, PhD, MFT, psychotherapist, teacher, workshop leader, and writer, to share wisdom from his 50+ years of helping people identify and resolve relationship challenges that often mirror or repeat issues from their childhood such as fears of abandonment or jealousy. Dr. Richo combines Jungian, poetic, and mythic perspectives in his work with the intention of integrating the psychological and the spiritual.

Dr. Richo shares a seemingly universal phenomenon that the past informs the present. Within psychology, this process may be referred to as transference or projection, and these can lead to problematic relational enactments where the past relational imprints impact one’s present relationship in harmful ways.  “I saw the connection between so many of our triggers and early childhood traumas, or even recent traumas, in relationships. We keep shuffling between past and present.” Dr. Richo explains that people subconsciously keep choosing to partner with a composite of the person who originally traumatized them. “It’s the psyche’s gross rather than subtle way of rubbing your nose in the need to work something out from a trauma that you haven’t fully dealt with.”

Dr. Richo posits that our relationship challenges often stem from the ongoing search to fulfill childhood needs, which he calls The Five A’s: attention, appreciation, acceptance, affection, and allowing. “If one or more or all were missing in early life, then you wouldn’t have learned how to give and receive them. Nor would you know how to be okay with receiving just a moderate dose of them. You would be craving, like a bottomless pit, to get more and more attention because that’s what you missed out on. And,” he cautions, “any person who sees that you’re someone feverishly and inappropriately craving constant attention and still wants you is not a healthy partner either.”

The good news, according to Dr. Richo, is that people with complex trauma (C-PTSD) can find and participate in healthy, secure adult relationships. “You have to do the psychological work that helps you look at what happened in the past and make sense of it. Not blame your parents, but certainly see that they are accountable.  But most of all, grieve what you missed. Let it go. Give it to yourself and ask only for a reasonable amount of it from a partner.”

Transforming Trauma is grateful to Dr. David Richo for sharing his decades of professional and spiritual wisdom with our community. His gentle guidance reminds us that intimate relationships built on loving kindness are possible when we acknowledge our trauma and actively engage in our healing journeys.

GUEST CONTACT AND BIO

Website

Dr. David Richo, PhD, MFT, is a psychotherapist, teacher, workshop leader, and writer who works in Santa Barbara and San Francisco California. He combines Jungian, poetic, and mythic perspectives in his work with the intention of integrating the psychological and the spiritual. His books and workshops include attention to Buddhist and Christian spiritual practices. Richo received his BA in psychology from Saint John’s Seminary in Brighton, Massachusetts, in 1962, his MA in counseling psychology from Fairfield University in 1969, and his PhD in clinical psychology from Sierra University in 1984. Since 1976, Richo has been a licensed marriage, family, and child counselor in California. In addition to practicing psychotherapy, Richo teaches in a number of places, including Santa Barbara City College, the University of California at Berkeley, Esalen Institute, Spirit Rock Buddhist Center, Pacifica Graduate Institute, and Santa Barbara Graduate Institute. He is currently a clinical supervisor for the Community Counseling Center in Santa Barbara, California.

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

The Body Keeps The Score

Triggers

When The Past Is Present

St. Augustine Confessions

How To Be An Adult In Relationships

Shambhala Publications

What is one-word that describes your deepest desire? What might be in your way of actualizing this desire? And, if you were able to actualize this desire, how might that impact your life moving forward? These are questions that people who are exploring personal and spiritual growth ask themselves, and that helping professionals may use to guide their deepening connection to themselves and their clients.

One long-time teacher says that creating more depth in the helping field requires therapists to do the hard internal work of self-healing. She invites us to feel our way through layers of pain and recognize the alchemic potential of being with our deepest emotions. Only then can we hold that same space for our clients.

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, CTTC Director and NARM® Senior Trainer Brad Kammer welcomes Jessica Britt, Training Director of The Diamond Approach, to share wisdom from her decades-long journey of personal healing and professional development. The pair also examine similarities between The Diamond Approach and the NeuroAffective Relational Model (NARM) in working with themes of connection, health and aliveness in healing complex trauma.

Jessica has been a student of Hamid Ali since 1977 and a teacher since 1985. As training director for the Diamond Approach, she leads ongoing groups in Europe, Canada, and the US. In the 1980s, Jessica was on the Gestalt staff of Esalen Institute, creating an integration of Reichian and Gestalt work. While at Esalen, she was a student within the Native American traditions leading wilderness journeys. Additionally, she studied continuum movement with Emily Conrad, A nurse in the seventies, Jessica specialized in the field of childhood sexual and physical abuse. She continues to practice from a view that includes the whole of the miracle of conscious life.

“I come from a very traumatic historical background as a child,” begins Jessica. “It was a lot of abuse in my family of origin.” Those experiences prompted Jessica’s quest for healing. “I started basically needing to deal with myself,” she laughs. “I went from Freud, which helped organize my history, to Jung, which gave me a larger context of holding, to Gestalt, which taught me about feelings.” She then incorporated Reiki, which provided her with a more embodied sense of self.

Still, she felt something was missing. It wasn’t until Jessica met Hamid Ali, her spiritual teacher and founder of The Diamond Method, that she learned to process complicated feelings while remaining thoroughly in her body. “I became somatically present and, over time, I started recognizing what we would call a spiritual strength.” She also realized first-hand and by working with clients that “our aliveness is more fundamental than our biology. Our ‘love nature’ is more fundamental than our organic or psychological heart.”

Jessica believes that it takes a profound level of self-awareness to hold someone’s emotions in a therapeutic relationship. “I don’t know where most people can get the practitioners who will be with them in a really deep way, that gives their clients the confidence to feel what feels like the un-feelable,” she says. NARM, which integrates a nervous system-based and a relational orientation, and also recognizes the spiritual level of human experience, is undoubtedly well-positioned to fill the void.

Jessica suggests about depth-oriented healing work, “It’s a midwifery process. It’s very hands-on in a certain kind of way. So to make oneself a vehicle for holding that does mean that you’ve dealt with some of the deep forces in your own consciousness,” she says, adding, “I think the therapist needs to be kind of fearless, you know, their feet solid on the ground and their butt in the dirt.”

Transforming Trauma is grateful to Jessica for sharing her wisdom with our community. She reminds us how important it is that therapists turn their inquisitive minds inward, exploring the darker chapters of our own stories so that we may better accompany our clients on their journey toward the light.

GUEST CONTACT AND BIO

The Diamond Approach

Email

Jessica Britt has been a student of Hamid Ali since 1977 and a teacher since 1985. As training director for the Diamond Approach, she leads ongoing groups in Europe, Canada, and the US. In the 1980s, Jessica was on the Gestalt staff of Esalen Institute, creating an integration of Reichian and Gestalt work. While at Esalen, she was a student within the Native American traditions leading wilderness journeys. Additionally, she studied continuum movement with Emily Conrad. A nurse in the seventies, Jessica specialized in the field of childhood sexual and physical abuse. She continues to practice from a view that includes the whole of the miracle of conscious life.

It’s no secret that incarcerated folks lack access to adequate mental health care while in prison. Reintegration support is even harder to come by once they are released. Sadly, women face even more significant challenges than men on both counts. But what if more trauma-informed professionals got involved in supporting formerly incarcerated women on both the individual and community levels? 

One leader in the second-chance movement reminds us of just how interconnected our communities are and invites trauma-informed professionals to consider sharing their time and talents with organizations serving formerly incarcerated people in their neighborhoods.

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth welcomes Alison Rapping, CEO of Arouet, to discuss the Arizona-based foundation’s pre-release, reassimilation, and mentorship programs for formerly incarcerated women. The pair also explore the impact that trauma has made on the lives of Arouet program participants and those in the US criminal justice system. 

During her tenure at Arouet, Alison has significantly expanded their programs and services, launching innovative initiatives, including a mission-driven job placement program and a pre-employment support center. Supporting post-traumatic growth, Alison and her team are driving social change and empowering communities. By providing individualized mental health and trauma-informed community support, Arouet promotes formerly incarcerated women to not only re-integrate back into society, but to thrive.

“I truly believe if every woman coming out of prison had a qualified therapist to help them navigate that first month, we would reduce relapse by 20%.” Alison’s years of experience suggest that newly released individuals carry a lot of unresolved trauma, much of it from before their incarceration, and then exacerbated by their time in prison.  During prison, many women are disconnected from their children, and experience tremendous amounts of guilt and shame. Once out of prison, the logistics of reintegration amplify their shame as they face rejections from employers, friends, families and communities. Their options for emotional support are slim. “For the majority of women that I work with, their only experience with behavioral health has been AA meetings. There is absolutely nothing wrong with AA meetings. For most people who are dealing with complex trauma, AA, NA, CoDA, they’re wonderful,” she notes, adding that the structure these organizations provide can be helpful on a post-incarceration journey. “But,” she cautions, “they’re not a trained professional therapist…If they just had a cherished therapist who they could talk to on a weekly basis while they’re navigating the first two months, I believe, for many of these women, it would be a game-changer.” 

Alison’s call to action is simple: get involved. There are many national and local second-chance organizations that therapists can connect with. There’s also a provision in Medicaid that covers mental health services for previously incarcerated patients. “There’s nothing more important that you can do than just give of yourself and share your heart with someone,” Alison says, mindful that therapists, especially those who specialize in complex trauma, are stretched thin. “But, I really think that there’s a huge opportunity for the health community to create better navigation tools,” she offers. “That can be game-changing to someone who maybe hasn’t felt that they had anyone who’s really paying attention to them.”

Transforming Trauma is grateful to Alison for her dedication to making life better for incarcerated and formerly incarcerated women. Her contributions to the second-chance movement are an inspiring reminder of the impact one person can have on an entire community.

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

Gideon’s Promise

Gideon’s Army

AA

NA

CoDA

Yavapai Justice and Mental Health Coalition

United Way

The Body Keeps The Score

Second Chance Business Coalition

FWD.us

Prison Policy Initiative

RECOMMENDED EPISODES

GUEST CONTACT AND BIO

Arouet

Alison Rapping 

QUOTES

“Every woman who is involved in our criminal legal system, in our jail and prison systems, has some experience with trauma.”

“We really need to look at how anemic the services are for people coming out of prison and how important it is that we start to build a much stronger, more positive, and loving ecosystem for people that are exiting the justice community.”

“I believe the biggest reason women relapse in the first month is because they’re so overwhelmed, and a therapist could really help them.”

“What I really have learned in doing this work is that we are all so interconnected that all of us are worthy of these incredible lives and these incredible experiences.”

“What we have to do a better job of is helping build an ecosystem of supportive care for people so that they can build a life and not let these little things that are really trauma responses sabotage them.”

“There is no greater gift you can give to somebody coming out of prison than your time, your treasures, and your expertise.”

“For so many women who are coming out of the justice system, what they may have never had is somebody who is just truly there to listen to and support them.”

When was the last time you took a break from learning new professional skills and, instead, carved out space to pursue self-discovery and community support? If your answer falls somewhere between “it’s been a while” and “never,” you’re not alone. 

Most therapists focus so much on the “doing” of therapy that they miss the essential ingredients for “being” in relationship with clients. As therapists chase new skills and trainings, they often leave themselves as humans behind. What if there was a program focused on cultivating greater capacity for being human in the role of therapist?  Where therapists could discover, grow, heal, and share in ways that could create greater therapeutic effectiveness and personal self-care? Where therapists can learn to love their work more, and be nourished by it?

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth welcomes back the faculty of the Complex Trauma Training Center (CTTC)––Brad Kammer, Stefanie Klein, and Marcia Black––to introduce SPACE, an innovative inner development program for therapists debuting in early 2025. SPACE supports therapists on three levels of the human experience: the personal, interpersonal, and transpersonal. 

In this conversation, Brad, Stefanie, and Marcia guide you through the intention of the program, as well as its structure, highlighting the themes and what participants can expect to gain from each session. They also share insights into how their own struggles and learning over their long careers as therapists helped them become more present, authentic, and effective therapists, and inspired their creation of SPACE. 

SPACE offers participants a safe, inclusive, and supportive environment where they can pursue self-discovery from the “inside-out,” becoming more familiar and comfortable with their inner wisdom. “What we want to support here,” says Marcia, “is our capacity to be more and more connected to the parts of ourselves that we may leave out of the work, that we may be afraid of experiencing, and that can be our greatest resources in our work.”

Speaking of the inside-out learning of SPACE, Brad shares: “In our community, there’s such a desire for us to continue going deeper into our own experiences as humans in our role of therapists, not just taking outside knowledge and training, but also bringing our own wisdom into more clarity with our clients,”  Brad reflects on his 25 years in professional training environments and educational settings, and says. “So many of us have done a lot of different trainings as therapists, specifically in the trauma world, and often what gets left out is ourselves. The cost of that is our own experiences, particularly when we’re working with clients with intense, complex trauma.” Tales of nagging career dissatisfaction and severe burn-out routinely bear this out.

Stefanie highlights the deeper intention of this exciting new program. “The mission of CTTC is founded around supporting therapists in their connection to these three levels of experience: the personal, interpersonal, and transpersonal.” SPACE inspires participants to find “more enjoyment, ease, and an internal sense of okayness,” she says. “Rather than learning a model and getting a certificate and saying you can do it, it’s really gonna be a certificate in yourself.” 

“I really think this is pretty unique in the psychological world,” Brad says. This program offers an immersive, heartful environment where therapists can reconnect with their humanity in relation to their clients, peers, and themselves. “We’re not coming in with all these different teachings, interventions, or protocols. We’re facilitating the exploration of people’s inner worlds,” he explains, adding, “What I’d love for participants to get out of this is ways of relating to themselves with more self-acceptance, self-compassion, less pressure, more creativity, and…more space.”  

Brad sums up the program as this: “When we think of space, we may think of exploration into outer space. What our SPACE program offers is exploration into our inner space: It’s an invitation to have a new relationship to our own inner world as a therapist.” 

Learn more about being a part of this community

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

The NeuroAffective Relational Model (NARM®)

Inside Out 2

GUEST CONTACT AND BIO

Complex Trauma Training Center

Brad Kammer, LMFT, LPCC, is the Training Director and Senior Trainer for the Complex Trauma Training Center. Brad is responsible for the creation of the CTTC professional development programs, including working with Dr. Laurence Heller in developing the NARM® Therapist and NARM® Master Training Programs offered through CTTC. Brad also guides the mentorship programs involving CTTC faculty, training assistants and participants; the diversity, inclusion and belonging (DIB) efforts; and is the executive producer of the Transforming Trauma podcast. Brad has a passion for cultivating a professional learning community that provides ongoing training opportunities and mentorship to a diverse group of mental health professionals in their work with complex trauma. Brad is also the co-author of The Practical Guide for Healing Developmental Trauma.

Stefanie Klein, LCSW, is the Assistant Training Director for the Complex Trauma Training Center. Stefanie is also a NARM® Master Therapist, Consultant and Trainer. She previously taught the Level 1 NARM Online Basics Training and is involved in many aspects of supporting the development of the Center and its programs. Her focus as Assistant Training Director is co-creating and guiding CTTC’s Training Assistant Program. She is inspired by the mentorship model of supporting mental health professionals in bringing healing to individuals, groups and communities impacted by complex trauma. She also enjoys the training participants use their professional learning as a framework to create healthier and more sustainable relationships to their own lives.

Marcia Black is a Licensed Clinical Psychologist and CTTC Faculty Committee member.  As a NARM® Senior Training Assistant, Marcia has a passion for mentoring students and Training Assistants, and nurturing the growth of the community of graduates committed to ongoing learning.  Marcia is also a NARM Master Therapist and has been in private practice for over 40 years in SF and the East Bay, specializing in treating complex and developmental trauma, and other psychological conditions. Coming from a background in Attachment, Relational and Intersubjective approaches, as well as experience as a Somatic Experiencing practitioner and SE Assistant, Marcia finds the NARM model offers an invaluable and inspiring contribution to understanding and approaching the psychotherapy process, not only in working with C-PTSD but also more broadly. Marcia’s mentorship is based in a relational approach that invites an exploration into the therapist’s inner experience and growth, alongside that of the client’s.  Marcia is excited about supporting ongoing training, consultation, and mentorship in her role at CTTC.

QUOTES

Brad Kammer

“So many of us, again, are going out to get knowledge, to get teaching, and what we’re really often looking for is connection to our own inner knowing and wisdom and how difficult that has been.”

“I would love people to not have to worry about ‘doing it right’ or getting all the information––or the expectations of how they’re gonna take this money they’ve spent on this new model and you know, prove that it was worth it––but that they really just get to be in a community and in these environments where they get to bring themselves and support others, and also get to receive support and enrichment for themselves as well.”

“It’s really about this invitation to have a new relationship to our own inner world as a therapist.”

Stefanie Klein

“A lot of people who are therapists, who work with complex trauma, know that the greatest resource that we have is our internal knowing and our internal wisdom, as well as our internal capacity to be with vulnerability and to be with uncertainty. At the same time, our biggest obstacles that get in the way of both our experience and our enjoyment of our work and our effectiveness are internal obstacles.”

“That’s the entree here: rather than learning a model and, you know, getting a certificate and saying you can do it, it’s really gonna be a certificate in yourself.”

Marcia Black

“We’re therapist-focused, not skill-focused. We’re looking at supporting capacity for increased complexity and intunement and personal self care in our professional and therapist role.”

“I think about, in consults that I have and in other training experiences, how students tend to leave their most authentic parts out.”

“Often, we devalue some of our most tender parts, our most vulnerable parts, or even some of our gifts.”

“We’re not going to teach a training, but we’re really working to create experiential opportunities where the way we actually bring the learning to the participants really is reflective of what we’re hoping they will learn.”