Category: Transforming Trauma Podcast

The best time to work on becoming an emotionally mature partner is before entering an intimate relationship. That guidance is especially important for people who have a history of relational and developmental trauma. The second best opportunity for growth arrives in the form of triggers – those adverse emotional responses that blur the distinction between past (our childhood experiences) and present (our adult partnerships). One psychotherapist invites us to think of triggers as trailheads, often uncomfortable but informative starting points in shifting deep-seated and problematic relational patterns.

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth welcomes Dr. David Richo, PhD, MFT, psychotherapist, teacher, workshop leader, and writer, to share wisdom from his 50+ years of helping people identify and resolve relationship challenges that often mirror or repeat issues from their childhood such as fears of abandonment or jealousy. Dr. Richo combines Jungian, poetic, and mythic perspectives in his work with the intention of integrating the psychological and the spiritual.

Dr. Richo shares a seemingly universal phenomenon that the past informs the present. Within psychology, this process may be referred to as transference or projection, and these can lead to problematic relational enactments where the past relational imprints impact one’s present relationship in harmful ways.  “I saw the connection between so many of our triggers and early childhood traumas, or even recent traumas, in relationships. We keep shuffling between past and present.” Dr. Richo explains that people subconsciously keep choosing to partner with a composite of the person who originally traumatized them. “It’s the psyche’s gross rather than subtle way of rubbing your nose in the need to work something out from a trauma that you haven’t fully dealt with.”

Dr. Richo posits that our relationship challenges often stem from the ongoing search to fulfill childhood needs, which he calls The Five A’s: attention, appreciation, acceptance, affection, and allowing. “If one or more or all were missing in early life, then you wouldn’t have learned how to give and receive them. Nor would you know how to be okay with receiving just a moderate dose of them. You would be craving, like a bottomless pit, to get more and more attention because that’s what you missed out on. And,” he cautions, “any person who sees that you’re someone feverishly and inappropriately craving constant attention and still wants you is not a healthy partner either.”

The good news, according to Dr. Richo, is that people with complex trauma (C-PTSD) can find and participate in healthy, secure adult relationships. “You have to do the psychological work that helps you look at what happened in the past and make sense of it. Not blame your parents, but certainly see that they are accountable.  But most of all, grieve what you missed. Let it go. Give it to yourself and ask only for a reasonable amount of it from a partner.”

Transforming Trauma is grateful to Dr. David Richo for sharing his decades of professional and spiritual wisdom with our community. His gentle guidance reminds us that intimate relationships built on loving kindness are possible when we acknowledge our trauma and actively engage in our healing journeys.

GUEST CONTACT AND BIO

Website

Dr. David Richo, PhD, MFT, is a psychotherapist, teacher, workshop leader, and writer who works in Santa Barbara and San Francisco California. He combines Jungian, poetic, and mythic perspectives in his work with the intention of integrating the psychological and the spiritual. His books and workshops include attention to Buddhist and Christian spiritual practices. Richo received his BA in psychology from Saint John’s Seminary in Brighton, Massachusetts, in 1962, his MA in counseling psychology from Fairfield University in 1969, and his PhD in clinical psychology from Sierra University in 1984. Since 1976, Richo has been a licensed marriage, family, and child counselor in California. In addition to practicing psychotherapy, Richo teaches in a number of places, including Santa Barbara City College, the University of California at Berkeley, Esalen Institute, Spirit Rock Buddhist Center, Pacifica Graduate Institute, and Santa Barbara Graduate Institute. He is currently a clinical supervisor for the Community Counseling Center in Santa Barbara, California.

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

The Body Keeps The Score

Triggers

When The Past Is Present

St. Augustine Confessions

How To Be An Adult In Relationships

Shambhala Publications

What is one-word that describes your deepest desire? What might be in your way of actualizing this desire? And, if you were able to actualize this desire, how might that impact your life moving forward? These are questions that people who are exploring personal and spiritual growth ask themselves, and that helping professionals may use to guide their deepening connection to themselves and their clients.

One long-time teacher says that creating more depth in the helping field requires therapists to do the hard internal work of self-healing. She invites us to feel our way through layers of pain and recognize the alchemic potential of being with our deepest emotions. Only then can we hold that same space for our clients.

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, CTTC Director and NARM® Senior Trainer Brad Kammer welcomes Jessica Britt, Training Director of The Diamond Approach, to share wisdom from her decades-long journey of personal healing and professional development. The pair also examine similarities between The Diamond Approach and the NeuroAffective Relational Model (NARM) in working with themes of connection, health and aliveness in healing complex trauma.

Jessica has been a student of Hamid Ali since 1977 and a teacher since 1985. As training director for the Diamond Approach, she leads ongoing groups in Europe, Canada, and the US. In the 1980s, Jessica was on the Gestalt staff of Esalen Institute, creating an integration of Reichian and Gestalt work. While at Esalen, she was a student within the Native American traditions leading wilderness journeys. Additionally, she studied continuum movement with Emily Conrad, A nurse in the seventies, Jessica specialized in the field of childhood sexual and physical abuse. She continues to practice from a view that includes the whole of the miracle of conscious life.

“I come from a very traumatic historical background as a child,” begins Jessica. “It was a lot of abuse in my family of origin.” Those experiences prompted Jessica’s quest for healing. “I started basically needing to deal with myself,” she laughs. “I went from Freud, which helped organize my history, to Jung, which gave me a larger context of holding, to Gestalt, which taught me about feelings.” She then incorporated Reiki, which provided her with a more embodied sense of self.

Still, she felt something was missing. It wasn’t until Jessica met Hamid Ali, her spiritual teacher and founder of The Diamond Method, that she learned to process complicated feelings while remaining thoroughly in her body. “I became somatically present and, over time, I started recognizing what we would call a spiritual strength.” She also realized first-hand and by working with clients that “our aliveness is more fundamental than our biology. Our ‘love nature’ is more fundamental than our organic or psychological heart.”

Jessica believes that it takes a profound level of self-awareness to hold someone’s emotions in a therapeutic relationship. “I don’t know where most people can get the practitioners who will be with them in a really deep way, that gives their clients the confidence to feel what feels like the un-feelable,” she says. NARM, which integrates a nervous system-based and a relational orientation, and also recognizes the spiritual level of human experience, is undoubtedly well-positioned to fill the void.

Jessica suggests about depth-oriented healing work, “It’s a midwifery process. It’s very hands-on in a certain kind of way. So to make oneself a vehicle for holding that does mean that you’ve dealt with some of the deep forces in your own consciousness,” she says, adding, “I think the therapist needs to be kind of fearless, you know, their feet solid on the ground and their butt in the dirt.”

Transforming Trauma is grateful to Jessica for sharing her wisdom with our community. She reminds us how important it is that therapists turn their inquisitive minds inward, exploring the darker chapters of our own stories so that we may better accompany our clients on their journey toward the light.

GUEST CONTACT AND BIO

The Diamond Approach

Email

Jessica Britt has been a student of Hamid Ali since 1977 and a teacher since 1985. As training director for the Diamond Approach, she leads ongoing groups in Europe, Canada, and the US. In the 1980s, Jessica was on the Gestalt staff of Esalen Institute, creating an integration of Reichian and Gestalt work. While at Esalen, she was a student within the Native American traditions leading wilderness journeys. Additionally, she studied continuum movement with Emily Conrad. A nurse in the seventies, Jessica specialized in the field of childhood sexual and physical abuse. She continues to practice from a view that includes the whole of the miracle of conscious life.

It’s no secret that incarcerated folks lack access to adequate mental health care while in prison. Reintegration support is even harder to come by once they are released. Sadly, women face even more significant challenges than men on both counts. But what if more trauma-informed professionals got involved in supporting formerly incarcerated women on both the individual and community levels? 

One leader in the second-chance movement reminds us of just how interconnected our communities are and invites trauma-informed professionals to consider sharing their time and talents with organizations serving formerly incarcerated people in their neighborhoods.

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth welcomes Alison Rapping, CEO of Arouet, to discuss the Arizona-based foundation’s pre-release, reassimilation, and mentorship programs for formerly incarcerated women. The pair also explore the impact that trauma has made on the lives of Arouet program participants and those in the US criminal justice system. 

During her tenure at Arouet, Alison has significantly expanded their programs and services, launching innovative initiatives, including a mission-driven job placement program and a pre-employment support center. Supporting post-traumatic growth, Alison and her team are driving social change and empowering communities. By providing individualized mental health and trauma-informed community support, Arouet promotes formerly incarcerated women to not only re-integrate back into society, but to thrive.

“I truly believe if every woman coming out of prison had a qualified therapist to help them navigate that first month, we would reduce relapse by 20%.” Alison’s years of experience suggest that newly released individuals carry a lot of unresolved trauma, much of it from before their incarceration, and then exacerbated by their time in prison.  During prison, many women are disconnected from their children, and experience tremendous amounts of guilt and shame. Once out of prison, the logistics of reintegration amplify their shame as they face rejections from employers, friends, families and communities. Their options for emotional support are slim. “For the majority of women that I work with, their only experience with behavioral health has been AA meetings. There is absolutely nothing wrong with AA meetings. For most people who are dealing with complex trauma, AA, NA, CoDA, they’re wonderful,” she notes, adding that the structure these organizations provide can be helpful on a post-incarceration journey. “But,” she cautions, “they’re not a trained professional therapist…If they just had a cherished therapist who they could talk to on a weekly basis while they’re navigating the first two months, I believe, for many of these women, it would be a game-changer.” 

Alison’s call to action is simple: get involved. There are many national and local second-chance organizations that therapists can connect with. There’s also a provision in Medicaid that covers mental health services for previously incarcerated patients. “There’s nothing more important that you can do than just give of yourself and share your heart with someone,” Alison says, mindful that therapists, especially those who specialize in complex trauma, are stretched thin. “But, I really think that there’s a huge opportunity for the health community to create better navigation tools,” she offers. “That can be game-changing to someone who maybe hasn’t felt that they had anyone who’s really paying attention to them.”

Transforming Trauma is grateful to Alison for her dedication to making life better for incarcerated and formerly incarcerated women. Her contributions to the second-chance movement are an inspiring reminder of the impact one person can have on an entire community.

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

Gideon’s Promise

Gideon’s Army

AA

NA

CoDA

Yavapai Justice and Mental Health Coalition

United Way

The Body Keeps The Score

Second Chance Business Coalition

FWD.us

Prison Policy Initiative

RECOMMENDED EPISODES

GUEST CONTACT AND BIO

Arouet

Alison Rapping 

QUOTES

“Every woman who is involved in our criminal legal system, in our jail and prison systems, has some experience with trauma.”

“We really need to look at how anemic the services are for people coming out of prison and how important it is that we start to build a much stronger, more positive, and loving ecosystem for people that are exiting the justice community.”

“I believe the biggest reason women relapse in the first month is because they’re so overwhelmed, and a therapist could really help them.”

“What I really have learned in doing this work is that we are all so interconnected that all of us are worthy of these incredible lives and these incredible experiences.”

“What we have to do a better job of is helping build an ecosystem of supportive care for people so that they can build a life and not let these little things that are really trauma responses sabotage them.”

“There is no greater gift you can give to somebody coming out of prison than your time, your treasures, and your expertise.”

“For so many women who are coming out of the justice system, what they may have never had is somebody who is just truly there to listen to and support them.”

When was the last time you took a break from learning new professional skills and, instead, carved out space to pursue self-discovery and community support? If your answer falls somewhere between “it’s been a while” and “never,” you’re not alone. 

Most therapists focus so much on the “doing” of therapy that they miss the essential ingredients for “being” in relationship with clients. As therapists chase new skills and trainings, they often leave themselves as humans behind. What if there was a program focused on cultivating greater capacity for being human in the role of therapist?  Where therapists could discover, grow, heal, and share in ways that could create greater therapeutic effectiveness and personal self-care? Where therapists can learn to love their work more, and be nourished by it?

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth welcomes back the faculty of the Complex Trauma Training Center (CTTC)––Brad Kammer, Stefanie Klein, and Marcia Black––to introduce SPACE, an innovative inner development program for therapists debuting in early 2025. SPACE supports therapists on three levels of the human experience: the personal, interpersonal, and transpersonal. 

In this conversation, Brad, Stefanie, and Marcia guide you through the intention of the program, as well as its structure, highlighting the themes and what participants can expect to gain from each session. They also share insights into how their own struggles and learning over their long careers as therapists helped them become more present, authentic, and effective therapists, and inspired their creation of SPACE. 

SPACE offers participants a safe, inclusive, and supportive environment where they can pursue self-discovery from the “inside-out,” becoming more familiar and comfortable with their inner wisdom. “What we want to support here,” says Marcia, “is our capacity to be more and more connected to the parts of ourselves that we may leave out of the work, that we may be afraid of experiencing, and that can be our greatest resources in our work.”

Speaking of the inside-out learning of SPACE, Brad shares: “In our community, there’s such a desire for us to continue going deeper into our own experiences as humans in our role of therapists, not just taking outside knowledge and training, but also bringing our own wisdom into more clarity with our clients,”  Brad reflects on his 25 years in professional training environments and educational settings, and says. “So many of us have done a lot of different trainings as therapists, specifically in the trauma world, and often what gets left out is ourselves. The cost of that is our own experiences, particularly when we’re working with clients with intense, complex trauma.” Tales of nagging career dissatisfaction and severe burn-out routinely bear this out.

Stefanie highlights the deeper intention of this exciting new program. “The mission of CTTC is founded around supporting therapists in their connection to these three levels of experience: the personal, interpersonal, and transpersonal.” SPACE inspires participants to find “more enjoyment, ease, and an internal sense of okayness,” she says. “Rather than learning a model and getting a certificate and saying you can do it, it’s really gonna be a certificate in yourself.” 

“I really think this is pretty unique in the psychological world,” Brad says. This program offers an immersive, heartful environment where therapists can reconnect with their humanity in relation to their clients, peers, and themselves. “We’re not coming in with all these different teachings, interventions, or protocols. We’re facilitating the exploration of people’s inner worlds,” he explains, adding, “What I’d love for participants to get out of this is ways of relating to themselves with more self-acceptance, self-compassion, less pressure, more creativity, and…more space.”  

Brad sums up the program as this: “When we think of space, we may think of exploration into outer space. What our SPACE program offers is exploration into our inner space: It’s an invitation to have a new relationship to our own inner world as a therapist.” 

Learn more about being a part of this community

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

The NeuroAffective Relational Model (NARM®)

Inside Out 2

GUEST CONTACT AND BIO

Complex Trauma Training Center

Brad Kammer, LMFT, LPCC, is the Training Director and Senior Trainer for the Complex Trauma Training Center. Brad is responsible for the creation of the CTTC professional development programs, including working with Dr. Laurence Heller in developing the NARM® Therapist and NARM® Master Training Programs offered through CTTC. Brad also guides the mentorship programs involving CTTC faculty, training assistants and participants; the diversity, inclusion and belonging (DIB) efforts; and is the executive producer of the Transforming Trauma podcast. Brad has a passion for cultivating a professional learning community that provides ongoing training opportunities and mentorship to a diverse group of mental health professionals in their work with complex trauma. Brad is also the co-author of The Practical Guide for Healing Developmental Trauma.

Stefanie Klein, LCSW, is the Assistant Training Director for the Complex Trauma Training Center. Stefanie is also a NARM® Master Therapist, Consultant and Trainer. She previously taught the Level 1 NARM Online Basics Training and is involved in many aspects of supporting the development of the Center and its programs. Her focus as Assistant Training Director is co-creating and guiding CTTC’s Training Assistant Program. She is inspired by the mentorship model of supporting mental health professionals in bringing healing to individuals, groups and communities impacted by complex trauma. She also enjoys the training participants use their professional learning as a framework to create healthier and more sustainable relationships to their own lives.

Marcia Black is a Licensed Clinical Psychologist and CTTC Faculty Committee member.  As a NARM® Senior Training Assistant, Marcia has a passion for mentoring students and Training Assistants, and nurturing the growth of the community of graduates committed to ongoing learning.  Marcia is also a NARM Master Therapist and has been in private practice for over 40 years in SF and the East Bay, specializing in treating complex and developmental trauma, and other psychological conditions. Coming from a background in Attachment, Relational and Intersubjective approaches, as well as experience as a Somatic Experiencing practitioner and SE Assistant, Marcia finds the NARM model offers an invaluable and inspiring contribution to understanding and approaching the psychotherapy process, not only in working with C-PTSD but also more broadly. Marcia’s mentorship is based in a relational approach that invites an exploration into the therapist’s inner experience and growth, alongside that of the client’s.  Marcia is excited about supporting ongoing training, consultation, and mentorship in her role at CTTC.

QUOTES

Brad Kammer

“So many of us, again, are going out to get knowledge, to get teaching, and what we’re really often looking for is connection to our own inner knowing and wisdom and how difficult that has been.”

“I would love people to not have to worry about ‘doing it right’ or getting all the information––or the expectations of how they’re gonna take this money they’ve spent on this new model and you know, prove that it was worth it––but that they really just get to be in a community and in these environments where they get to bring themselves and support others, and also get to receive support and enrichment for themselves as well.”

“It’s really about this invitation to have a new relationship to our own inner world as a therapist.”

Stefanie Klein

“A lot of people who are therapists, who work with complex trauma, know that the greatest resource that we have is our internal knowing and our internal wisdom, as well as our internal capacity to be with vulnerability and to be with uncertainty. At the same time, our biggest obstacles that get in the way of both our experience and our enjoyment of our work and our effectiveness are internal obstacles.”

“That’s the entree here: rather than learning a model and, you know, getting a certificate and saying you can do it, it’s really gonna be a certificate in yourself.”

Marcia Black

“We’re therapist-focused, not skill-focused. We’re looking at supporting capacity for increased complexity and intunement and personal self care in our professional and therapist role.”

“I think about, in consults that I have and in other training experiences, how students tend to leave their most authentic parts out.”

“Often, we devalue some of our most tender parts, our most vulnerable parts, or even some of our gifts.”

“We’re not going to teach a training, but we’re really working to create experiential opportunities where the way we actually bring the learning to the participants really is reflective of what we’re hoping they will learn.”

Most addiction treatment models focus on behavioral change. And yet, many of these models fail at helping people fully recover from their addiction. Perhaps it is time to try something different? Applying NARM® to addiction brings focus to areas that behavioral interventions miss, like understanding the role of trauma, attachment, relationships, and shame. Addressing these areas has a profound impact on addiction recovery. NARM-AC™(also known as NARMA™), a newly developed addiction treatment model, already provides promising answers.

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth invites James McNinch, LCSW and PhD candidate and addiction specialist, to introduce NARM-AC, the NeuroAffective Relational Model® – Addiction Centered, an approach he co-developed alongside Dr. Laurence Heller, the creator of NARM. Emily and James explore the evolution of NARM-AC and its application.

NARM-AC propels Dr. Heller’s groundbreaking work into new territory. “It’s interesting because NARM doesn’t really get into behaviors, socialization, boundaries, and things like that. So, Larry and I are really feeling this out alongside practical approaches of accountability, social support, existing things like the 12 steps, motivational interviewing, and integrating that with connection, trust, autonomy, all the pillars of NARM,” James says. “What NARM-AC does is it compliments. Right now, in our treatment centers, [they] are utilizing the social model, and they’re having an immense experience with themselves, and they’re doing a 12-step thing to work with their mind. And, it’s very useful to use all these things all together in unison.”

James discusses the clinical focus of self-agency, which NARM-AC highlights as a critical component for sustained sobriety. “NARM-AC gives patients the option of having autonomy over how much they can handle in the moment, to go away and come back. It allows them the freedom to start trusting that their experience is not gonna kill them.” James continues, “The beautiful thing (about NARM-AC) is that clients are coming to their own conclusions. [We support] them to have the choice to stay in that phenomenology, and reminding them of what’s happening.”

Using a clinical model that goes well beyond the standard behavioral and cognitive focus provides clients with new pathways to change addictive patterns. Treating the trauma underneath addiction is a new paradigm. While this depth-oriented trauma work may take longer, it often reduces the risk of repeat behavior, as people truly heal. As James says, “It gives them hope. They stay longer; they connect deeper; they feel something that’s possible versus us all staying in denial.”

Transforming Trauma is grateful to James for co-creating the NARM-AC model and we hope that this framework for treating addiction can reach many more centers for helping people recover from addiction.

RECOMMENDED EPISODES

TT136: Addiction Recovery Within A Trauma-Informed Community With Laura Sorte

GUEST CONTACT AND BIO

NARM Therapy Los Angeles

James McNinch, LCSW, is an experienced addiction treatment and trauma clinician with 16 years of experience. He is a NARM-AC Co-Founder who facilitates the creation of addiction treatment programs at the world’s most elite treatment centers. James is writing the NARM-AC Workbook and Treatment Model Book with Dr. Laurence Heller for publication by North Atlantic.