Category: Transforming Trauma Podcast

“I don’t know that there’s anything especially complex about working with NPD. You just have to know what it is that’s showing up and have a sense of how it’s grounded in the individual’s vulnerability.” ~Dr. Mark Ettensohn

Narcissism has become a buzz word on social media. It has moved from a psychological understanding to a term that is used for blaming, scapegoating, and other emotionally charged narratives. This polarization has led to casting someone with narcissist traits as a villain who is intentionally cruel, manipulative, and beyond help.

While those with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) can exhibit difficult or even harmful traits, social media has erased the distinction between mental illness and moral defect. One clinician cautions that this “narcisso-sphere” content contributes to the despair of an already vulnerable population and even suicidality among those who identify with the diagnosis.

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emilly Ruth welcomes Mark Ettensohn, Psy, D. He offers a corrective to the often sensationalized way NPD is discussed on social media. Mark is the founder of Heal NPD, a clinical and educational platform focused on the understanding and treatment of narcissistic personality disorder. His work explores the developmental and relational roots of narcissism, including trauma, dissociation, and identity. Mark is also the author of Unmasking Narcissism: A Guide to Understanding the Narcissist in Your Life and shares widely followed educational content through his Heal NPD YouTube Channel.

Emily and Mark explore the root causes and manifestations of NPD through a compassionate lens, highlighting a need for greater curiosity and more robust assessment tools among clinicians. In doing so, they dispel the myth that NPD is a purely genetic or untreatable diagnosis.

“Most of my public-facing work is about humanizing narcissistic pathology, trying to help people understand the complexities involved, particularly concerning pathological narcissism as an adaptation to complex early relational trauma,” Mark begins.

NPD shows up in far more varied ways than the “evil narcissist” stereotype suggests. “It’s polymorphic,” explains Mark, meaning it can take many forms. While some presentations align with the grandiose, domineering image popularized online, many are more vulnerable, marked by shame, withdrawal, and hypersensitivity rather than overt arrogance. The distinction matters as it shifts focus from judging behaviors to understanding their underlying psychological processes.

This gentle reframe also underscores the commonality of narcissistic traits. “I think this is something that all clinicians see on a regular basis, whether or not they’re in a position to recognize that that’s what it is,” Mark says. Still, he acknowledges the wide gap between clinical reality and viral storytelling. “Some of the biggest channels in psychology are centered around this narrative of the narcissist as this monstrous figure.”

In the “narcisso-sphere,” NPD is reduced to generalized behaviors: if someone is controlling, cold, or hurtful, they’re a narcissist. Mark maintains that this “outside-in” approach is insufficient. “That’s not psychology. It doesn’t concern the subjective experience of the individual exhibiting those behaviors.” Without understanding a person’s motivations or internal conflicts, he fears that sound clinical diagnosis devolves into guesswork.

Mark traces the roots of NPD to the first few years of life. “Things like chronic attachment disruptions, chronic early adverse childhood experiences––basically, complex relational trauma that’s unfolding during those key windows of identity development––interfere with the mind’s normal developmental trajectory,” he says. The child develops adaptive strategies for maintaining self-esteem and managing overwhelming emotions. NPD, then, isn’t a fixed moral identity or a problem of too much ego. Instead, “it is a treatable issue,” he says.

While temperament of the client and clinician plays a role, Mark advocates for sticking with the journey, exploring traumas and relational experiences together and building a foundation for meaningful repair. “Whatever it is that’s showing up, however off-putting it may be, to be able to see it in light of these early adaptations, that fills in the compassionate piece where you can empathize with the individual. That’s the medicine,” he says. “A lot of the work is just tolerating the ups and downs and all-arounds while trying to stay empathically attuned.”

Transforming Trauma thanks Mark for sharing his expertise with our community. His empathetic approach to NPD invites curiosity over confrontation and genuine relational support over social media simplification.

RECOMMENDED EPISODES

Healing Shame and Guilt using NARM® with Dr. Laurence Heller

Personality and the Alchemy of Therapeutic Change with Nancy McWilliams, PhD

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

Unmasking Narcissism: A Guide to Understanding the Narcissist in Your Life

Building hope for treatment of narcissistic personality disorder – by Igor Weinberg

Psychoanalytic Diagnosis: Understanding Personality Structure in the Clinical Process

Otto Kernberg, M.D.

The Bonds of Love: Psychoanalysis, Feminism, and the Problem of Domination

Pathological narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder – Aaron Pincus, et al

Donald Winnekot

“Our complexity is okay. Our complexity is natural….I’ve learned to make room for my complexity.”~Tracy Rae Clark

We share stories to inform, inspire, and connect. They also serve as maps, helping people commemorate life experiences that have shaped their journeys. One NARM® practitioner inspires others by putting her stories into poems and lyrics, helping guide others in their own path to healing.

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth welcomes singer-songwriter and long-time NARM practitioner Tracy Rae Clark, LCSW, CPC, for a deeply introspective conversation. The pair explores how trauma, creativity, music, spirituality, and relational healing converged in Tracy’s search for genuine connection and well-being.

Tracy begins the discussion with one of her favorite quotes. “The spontaneous movement in all of us is toward health, vitality, aliveness.” Those words, by Dr. Laurence Heller, founder of the NeuroAffective Relational Model® (NARM®), can remind us of our inner wisdom and basic humanity. They set the tone for Tracy’s intention. “I want to encourage other people to see the beauty of their own journey and how all these elements play a role in where we are now and the movement toward aliveness,” she says.

When reflecting on her own life, Tracy says she has witnessed the life force at work even through significant hardship, helping her make sense of both her struggles and her growth. “My family went through some really intense developmental relational trauma when I was about five that impacted us for years, even up until this day,” she observes. “I had this mix of intense trauma and deep love. And I think those two things coming together gave me the shattering of trauma, but also the holding and the love to want something more for myself and have the capacity to seek it.”

Therapy became part of Tracy’s life at age five. Creativity also played a central role. “Poetry was my therapy,” she explains. “I learned to connect with myself, make room for some of my complexity, say stuff to paper that I couldn’t say to a person at the time.” Music and songwriting would also become extensions of this inner work, as would her career ambitions. “When I was in eighth grade, I wanted to be a child psychologist,” she recalls. “The seeds were there really early.”

A pivotal moment came during a college internship in Egypt, where Tracy had a profound spiritual experience. “My life became oriented to more being,” she recalls, “rather than succeeding and achieving.”

Tracy emphasizes that after years on a path of spirituality and healing, her introduction to the NeuroAffective Relational Model felt like coming home. “It’s such a transformative model personally as well as professionally,” she affirms. “I really appreciated and noticed right away the community and people doing depth work. I loved that we were healing in community, watching each other in our vulnerable and brave places.”

Tracy highlights the collaborative culture in the NARM Therapist Trainings, which creates a safe container for honoring human complexity while working in the present moment. “I was learning, oh, I can be in process and not know where I’m going, trust someone to be with me, and trust myself to be vulnerable,” she says. “That, to me, felt beautiful and supportive and to not be alone in what we were discovering about ourselves.”

It’s impossible to separate Tracy from the communities that have guided her healing trajectory. She is deeply grateful for the circle of support that includes family members, creative artists, fellow members of Alcoholics Anonymous, and colleagues at the Complex Trauma Training Center (CTTC). “Ever since I did my first NARM training, I’ve been really involved as a training assistant, helping lead small groups, and I’ve been a perpetual student,” she says. “I trust the love that’s there.”

Transforming Trauma thanks Tracy for sharing her journey. Her honesty and commitment to healing represent what’s possible when we stop trying to “fix” ourselves and instead spontaneously move toward connection and health.

“In [therapy trainings] there’s a lot of focus on the client. And, of course, our clients are super important, but we’re bypassing something very important when we just focus on our clients.” ~Brad Kammer

Today’s clinicians have access to more advanced theories, protocols, and clinical models than at any other time in our profession’s history. Yet, despite all that learning, something essential is often missing: our own humanity.

Many therapists enter this field wanting to grow and heal alongside others. But most of the training focuses almost entirely on the client. The result? A profession suffering from high rates of burnout and too few opportunities for therapists to embark on journeys of self-discovery — until now.

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth is thrilled to welcome back Brad Kammer, Complex Trauma Training Center (CTTC) Director, SPACE Inner Development Program creator, NARM® Senior Trainer, author, and executive producer of this podcast. The pair introduces us to the Inside-Out Learning Series: Transforming Clinical Work from the Inside-Out, a virtual workshop series for professionals committed to deep personal and clinical transformation. Brad also shares his motivation for creating the Inside-Out series and what participants can expect from the workshops’ immersive, experiential and supportive environment.

“There’s this famous quote within the psychology world that says, you can’t take someone to a place that you haven’t gotten to know inside yourself,” says Brad. While the passage plays an integral role in Inside-Out’s development, the workshop’s origin story also serves a pragmatic purpose. “Very soon after we started SPACE (CTTC’s inner development program), I realized we needed more time with most of these topics,” Brad recalls.

The three stand-alone workshops in the Inside-Out series provide clinicians and other helping professionals with a virtual space to focus on meaningful personal exploration and clinical development.

The first workshop — Narcissism from the Inside-Out — reinforced how transformative having space for depth-oriented conversations could be. Instead of focusing on how to identify narcissism in clients, participants were invited to look at the ways narcissistic patterns might emerge in their own inner worlds. Several forms of narcissistic dynamics were covered, including therapeutic narcissism and communal narcissism.

Therapeutic narcissism can show up when clinicians unconsciously view their clients’ progress as an extension of themselves — taking pride in successes or blaming themselves when clients struggle. Communal narcissism, on the other hand, can appear in helping professions through a subtle “savior complex” or a need to be seen as morally good and helpful.

What made the workshop memorable wasn’t just the content. “Part of the safety is just seeing how common these [patterns] are and that we all share them to some extent,” Brad says, adding that participants showed remarkable vulnerability when sharing their experiences. The atmosphere shifted from overly self-critical to compassionate, inquisitive, and more able to hold complexity without needing to label. Plans are underway to offer a replay of this session.

The second workshop — Borderline from the Inside-Out — will take place May 1–2, 2026. Like the narcissism workshop, it won’t focus on diagnosing clients. Instead, it explores the relational dynamics often associated with borderline patterns, especially fears of abandonment, heightened sensitivity in relationships, and difficulty with boundaries. “We’re going to talk about the whole borderline spectrum, and I’m sure most people are going to see themselves somewhere along that spectrum,” says Brad.

The series will conclude with Intergenerational and Cultural Trauma from the Inside-Out on November 6–7, 2026. This workshop will explore lineage and ancestral patterns — how family history, cultural experiences, and inherited trauma can live within us even when we don’t consciously know the stories. Stay tuned for a more thorough discussion on this session coming soon!

Before logging off, Brad offered a final thought on why Inside-Out is vital to our evolution as clinicians and community members. “Having a space where we could really start to look at some of these things that are more taboo in a safe way, non-judgmental way, it just feels so critical.”

Transforming Trauma appreciates Brad for helping us build greater capacity to explore intrapersonal dynamics and hold the complexities of the therapeutic relationship.

Reserve your spot in upcoming Inside-Out Learning Series workshops.

What happens when a vocalist trained in the art of performance discovers that the deepest music she could ever make begins with learning how to stop performing? For Elizabeth Remic Simonian, the journey from conservatory-trained singer to integrative and somatic therapist was not a departure from music but a homecoming to something she had been reaching toward her entire life. Her story illuminates a truth that therapists, educators, and healers of all kinds are hungry to hear: that the most profound shift in how we meet another human being has little to do with acquiring better tools, and everything to do with how willing we are to show up as ourselves.

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth welcomes Elizabeth Remic Simonian for an intimate conversation about therapy not as something we do, but how we live.. Together, they explore how Elizabeth’s path from teaching voice at a conservatory to working with survivors of sexual abuse and complex trauma revealed a through-line she had always sensed but could never quite name. That through-line is presence, and it changes everything – from music to therapy.

Elizabeth is an integrative and somatic therapist based in Rotterdam, Netherlands. Born in Cyprus to Swedish and Armenian parents, she spent her formative years moving between cultures before settling in the Netherlands in 2003. She is a Somatic Experiencing practitioner, Soma Embodiment practitioner, and has completed her NARM® Master Therapist certificate alongside advanced training in somatic sexuality healing. Her earlier career as a jazz vocalist and conservatory voice teacher profoundly shapes the embodied, heartful quality she brings to her clinical work.

“Nobody had ever started a session with asking me what I would like,” Elizabeth recalls of her first experience as a client in the NeuroAffective Relational Model®. Having spent many years in therapy, she had become expert at being the easy, accommodating client, reading what practitioners needed and delivering it. When a NARM therapist simply asked what she wanted for herself, the ground shifted. That single, consent-based question disrupted a lifetime of adaptive strategies and opened a door she did not know was closed. It is a moment she returns to throughout the conversation as foundational, not only for her own healing, but for how she now meets every person who walks into her practice.

Elizabeth traces her interest in NARM back to watching a demonstration where something subtle but unmistakable caught her attention. It was the way the practitioner respected the space the client needed, the quality of consent present in every exchange. She contrasts this with a moment in another training where an instructor encouraged therapists who felt stuck to reach into a “box of interventions” for something to fix the situation. “Everything in my body just went no, no, no,” she says. That visceral rejection of the fix-it model became a compass pointing her toward NARM, where she found what she describes as coming home.

One of the most striking threads in the conversation is Elizabeth’s exploration of efforting, a concept central to NARM that invites practitioners to notice where their own adaptive strategies are running the show. “If I’m efforting, the connection isn’t there in the same way,” she reflects. “And if the connection isn’t there, then what are we doing? Because isn’t that what most people have been lacking and are hoping to find?”

Perhaps the most compelling dimension of the conversation is how Elizabeth describes NARM’s influence rippling far beyond the therapy room and into her years of teaching voice at a Dutch conservatory. As her own NARM process deepened, she began bringing that quality of relational presence into her music lessons, not as a therapeutic intervention, but as a natural extension of who she was becoming. The results were unmistakable. Students became more comfortable, more open, more willing to break down in lessons and find genuine strength. More and more students asked to transfer into her classes. She found this remarkable precisely because she was not investing in new vocal techniques or performance skills. She was investing in her own embodiment. “I’m currently not busy with more technique,” she says. “I’m busy with something completely different. And this is translating into music.”

Elizabeth’s reflection on her own voice carries a quiet power. She describes how, as a conservatory student, her voice would shut down during exams even though performing on stage felt entirely different. That pattern, she now understands, was never simply a technical problem. It was a somatic expression of something much deeper. She wonders aloud what might have been different if a teacher had met that moment with sensitivity and curiosity rather than treating it as a deficit to correct. It is this wondering that fuels her interest in bringing NARM-informed awareness to educators, particularly within the arts, where competition and the pressure to prove oneself can intensify the very strategies that constrict creativity and voice.

The conversation arrives at a beautiful paradox. Elizabeth describes singing with less technical practice but far more embodiment, less shame, and more authenticity than she has ever experienced. “I cannot tell you what a difference it makes to sing with more embodiment and less shame and more authenticity,” she says. “I have never loved to sing more than I do now.” It is a living demonstration that when we reduce the efforting and inhabit ourselves more fully, something opens that no amount of technique alone can produce. The voice, both literal and metaphorical, finds its ground.

What emerges from this episode is not a list of strategies for better therapy or better teaching, but an invitation to consider what becomes possible when we stop efforting and start inhabiting ourselves more fully. Elizabeth’s story suggests that the practitioner’s internal state is not a footnote to the work. It is the work. And its effects reach far beyond the consulting room, into classrooms, onto stages, and into every relationship where one human being dares to show up, fully present, with another.

Transforming Trauma is deeply grateful to Elizabeth for the generosity and openheartedness she brings to this conversation. Her willingness to share the sacred, pivotal moments of her journey reminds us that healing unfolds not through perfecting our interventions, but through the ongoing, courageous act of coming home to ourselves.

The reality of trauma in refugee and immigrant communities is anything but simple. In this moving conversation, Yukako Sortino invites us to consider what healing can truly look like when “trauma is not just clinical diagnosis or struggle, it’s relational, systemic,” and woven through stories of both oppression and resilience. The urgency of this work is palpable: refugees and immigrants don’t just carry the wounds of the past, but are navigating the pressures of resettlement, systemic racism, and continual displacement in real time. Listeners are called not just to empathy but to “a deeper, deeper reverence for the complexity of healing in these communities.”

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth sits down with Yukako Sortino, trauma-informed psychotherapist and Manager of the Refugee Behavioral Wellness Program in Chicago. Together they explore the nuanced realities of trauma shaped by a “triple trauma paradigm”—pre-migration, migration, and post-migration stress—and why healing must be seen as both a personal and collective act. Yukako details how her integration of the NeuroAffective Relational Model® (NARM®) becomes less about symptom reduction and more about relational presence: “Curiosity instead of interpretation, co-regulation before self-regulation,” and honoring survival strategies not as pathology, but as wisdom that helped people endure.

Yukako Sortino, LCSW, leads the Refugee Behavioral Wellness Program at Heartland Alliance Health, supporting refugees, asylum seekers, and undocumented immigrants through culturally responsive, trauma-informed care. Drawing from her lived experience across multiple countries and decades in community development, she integrates modalities like NARM, CBT, ACT, and trauma-sensitive yoga to meet people where they are. In addition to her leadership and clinical practice, she mentors graduate students, serves as a consultant globally, and remains deeply rooted as a published writer and advocate prioritizing holistic, non-pathologizing support for communities in transition.

Throughout the conversation, Yukako returns to the heart of trauma care: honoring the full dignity and humanity of each person. She speaks candidly about the challenges—balancing Western clinical frameworks with ancestral healing, contending with funding limitations and staff burnout, and witnessing the effects of ongoing injustice. “Healing is deeply relational, cultural, and it’s a political act. It’s about returning to ourselves.” She describes moments where micro-interventions—“Hey, I’m here. We can slow down. You don’t have to explain your pain to me”—can be radical pivots toward safety and liberation. A case example underscores how reclaiming agency, voice, and the right to feel is both a somatic and political process, one often ignited in the presence of simple attunement or cultural rituals, far beyond the therapy room.

If there is a central takeaway, it is the imperative for providers and communities to “interrupt harm,” create spaces where healing can unfold at its own pace, and recognize that “rest, sustainability, and community care—not luxuries, they’re the ethical responsibilities.” Yukako reminds us that, without resisting the conditions that produce burnout and disconnection, cycles of trauma are unwittingly replicated. Community care, collective practice, and the integration of culturally grounded approaches become the bedrock not just of individual recovery, but of collective liberation.

Listeners will leave this episode with a renewed sense of reverence for trauma healing as an act of resistance, shaped by collective care and the courage to slow down, both with others and within ourselves. The conversation stands as both a compassionate invitation and a call to action for authentic, culturally attuned presence in the work of transforming trauma.