Category: Transforming Trauma Podcast

In this episode of Transforming Trauma, Emily speaks with Jac O’Keeffe, President and founding member of the Association for Spiritual Integrity (ASI), an organization committed to bringing higher levels of integrity to the culture of spiritual leadership. The pair discuss Jac’s educational and spiritual evolution, the role of empathy and accountability within ASI’s anti-authoritarian model, spiritual bypass, and the link between agency, trauma healing, and personal divinity. 

The impact of any religious or spiritual practice usually rests on the self-knowledge and integrity of its leaders. Jac is passionate about supporting those spiritual leaders who’ve failed to address complex trauma in their personal histories. This omission prevents many leaders from effectively supporting their students, or worse, leads them to perpetuate spiritual misconduct and outright abuse. 

“I want to help spiritual leaders do better,” affirms Jac, who’s been on her quest for continual improvement as an independent spiritual teacher for over 15 years. Her work––which includes teachings, talks, retreats, and the books Born To Be Free and How To Be A Spiritual Rebel––empowers individuals who are done outsourcing their spiritual awakening. Jac envisions a future where spiritual leaders, regardless of tradition or affiliation, hold trauma work as part of their spiritual practice rather than antithetical to achieving enlightenment. “It’s about the inclusion of all aspects of our experience. The inclusion of everything is what brings us towards the divine oneness,” she says, adding, “There’s no part of ourselves that can be shunned.”

With its compassionate code of ethics and inclusive peer support, ASI invites spiritual leaders to learn more about trauma and specifically address their own unresolved trauma. This includes a greater understanding of spiritual bypass and the way this leads to acting-out. “The disconnection from our body – which can happen through extensive spiritual practice – leads us to denying, to having our own traumatic experiences in the shadows,” warns Jac. She says spiritual leaders, teachers, and guides must visit these “enclaves of humanness” so that their spiritual integration becomes a process of maturation that they can then extend to their students.

Transforming Trauma is galvanized by Jac O’Keeffe’s work with ASI to promote accountability, robust ethical principles, and trauma healing among spiritual leaders and their communities.

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Association For Spiritual Integrity

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Jac O’Keeffe is a theology graduate from the Pontificate University of Ireland with postgraduate studies in adult education. Working as an independent spiritual teacher for more than 15 years, she guides people in the unfoldment of their own spiritual journey. In her books, teachings, talks and retreats, she supports the empowerment of individuals who are done with bypassing, done with hiding, done with outsourcing their spiritual awakening to gurus. Her books include Born to Be Free and How to Be a Spiritual Rebel.

Jac is the President and founding member of the Association for Spiritual Integrity (ASI), an organization with a mission to bring high levels of integrity to the culture of spiritual leadership.

In medical terminology, “evidenced-based” is a gold star endorsement awarded to recurrent standards of proof that arise from comparison studies of a specific treatment protocol or prevention. Is it possible to validate NARM’s efficacy using those same evidence-based standards? Should we? In this episode of Transforming Trauma, Emily is joined by Salman Alawadi, a NARM practitioner and Ph.D. candidate in Research, Measurement, and Evaluation at the University of Miami, for a fascinating discussion about the challenges of developing an evidence-based standard for NARM and distilling that research into accessible data. 

Clients with Complex-PTSD present with psychological conditions that pose unique limitations for establishing efficacy under the current medical parameter. “The difficulty with NARM establishing itself as an evidence-based treatment lies also in the challenge that is related to conducting any research on complex PTSD.”  Salman explains that “the problem is not with pushing toward evidence-based approaches. It’s important that there’s a continuous push for evidence because, through evidence, we know what works.” Instead, he calls out psychology’s fixation with the medical model. 

Salman argues that applying the same linear methodology used in, say, cancer research to a study of clients with C-PTSD misses the nuances intrinsic to the human brain. “Mental health disorders are not called mental health diseases. When we talk about a disorder, we don’t understand the mechanism of it. When we talk about a disease, we know what’s going on. A disorder describes the manifestation of a disease that is unknown.” He advocates for creating more rigorous criteria to understand a psychological intervention like NARM than the current evidence-based model. “The role of NARM is to help validate the construct because, as experts in that area, we are the most capable of validating that concept.” To that end, he says NARM practitioners already have the data sitting in front of them in the form of patients. Now, all the NARM community has to do is develop a strategy for collecting that information, conducting a thorough analysis, and disseminating those findings. 

We appreciate Salman for sharing his exciting work with us and championing the drive to standardize NARM efficacy research and make it more accessible to all. We invite the Transforming Trauma audience to learn more about Salman’s approach to analyzing NARM outcomes by listening to the entire episode.

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Forgiveness can transform lives. In this episode of Transforming Trauma, Emily explores the holistic practice of restorative justice with Dr. Elaine Leeder, a professor and prolific writer who’s worked in mental hospitals, gerontology, foster care, domestic violence, and drug and alcohol counseling as a social worker and psychotherapist. As Emily discovers, Elaine’s current pro bono work with incarcerated individuals and those they’ve harmed is remarkable for its progressive approach to redemption. 

In her 28 years working with prisoners, Elaine has witnessed the devastating effects of early childhood trauma compounded by the consequences of institutionalized mistreatment. She has also experienced the power of collective healing. While the journey forward is often painful, Elaine believes this path offers an intentional alternative to traditional incarceration.  

“People are not the worst things they’ve done,” Elaine insists. Her empathetic statement complements the NARM principle that humans can repair persistent, outdated adaptive survival strategies through connection, attunement, trust, and autonomy. These core capacities are difficult to access in prison, however. In her opinion, what generally happens inside prisons is retribution, not rehabilitation. “There’s no healing if you’re locked into a cell the size of a cage.”

Elaine calls upon various spiritual themes to facilitate healing between participants, a technique that’s familiar to NARM practitioners as well. Teshuva, the Jewish tradition of repentance, invites a return to the pure self, while ahimsa, invokes the ancient Indian principle of nonviolence. “It’s a very spiritual experience that I engage in with these people. I see it as a form of healing the world, of mending the harm that has been done to both victim and offender,” she says, adding, “I feel enormously privileged to be present to watch the transformation that takes place with these folks.”

We feel enormously privileged to share Elaine’s work with Transforming Trauma listeners. Her ability to hold compassion for both incarcerated people and the victims of their crime is inspiring, and we’re grateful to her for facilitating opportunities in which collaborative healing can take root. We invite you to learn more about Elaine’s commitment to trauma care and restorative justice by engaging with the full episode.

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In this episode of Transforming Trauma, Emily is joined by Dr. Stephen Gilligan, psychotherapist, author, workshop leader, and transformation specialist. “The most common word you’ll hear me use in a therapy session is ‘welcome’. Welcome.” It’s in this spirit of openness and curiosity that Emily and Dr. Gilligan discuss his life’s work, what he’s learned about connection and fulfilling core needs, plus the creative paths that bring clients back into life and a happy future.

After receiving his doctorate in Psychology from Stanford University and motivated by his life experiences, he developed a new practice incorporating Ericksonian psychotherapy, Aikido Buddhism, meditation, and the performance arts. His work focuses on the awakening of the soul, drawing parallels from other traditions where such explorations are essential to awakening the human spirit. He’s the author of several books in the field, as well as many papers on hypnosis, hypnotherapy, and the works of Milton Erickson.

Extraordinary journeys of self-discovery often begin with a simple invitation. NARM practitioners encourage these explorations by asking clients to set an intention from the beginning for the work ahead. Stephen Gilligan, PhD., takes a similarly powerful approach. At the start of each visit, he warmly receives both the client and their trauma into the therapeutic space.

One of the central themes in NARM is a connection to ourselves, each other, and our surroundings. Dr. Gilligan leans into this interdependence in his own practice, helping the client address (or welcome) their trauma and notice where they can replace outdated survival skills with more authentic modes of being. “Trauma is one of the more significant events that will be a significant piece of [a person’s] identity,” he says. The disassociation that often follows a single incident or complex traumatic event is, as Dr. Gilligan explains, an act of self-love designed to keep the client safe––for a while. “It worked great as a short-term strategy; it sucks in the long-term.”

Dr. Gilligan believes that dissociation starts to break down when the tactic is no longer needed. He uses hypnotherapy not as a means of regression but as a catalyst for clients to develop resources in the present. It’s a collaborative process that mirrors NARM, reinforcing client agency and activating new competencies for self-management and resilience.

About Stephen Gilligan, Ph.D.:

Stephen Gilligan, Ph.D., is a psychologist who received his doctorate from Stanford University. He was a major student of Milton Erickson and has been elaborating this work for the past 35 years while also developing Generative Psychotherapy. In 2004, he received the rarely-given Lifetime Achievement Award from the Erickson Foundation in honor of his many contributions. He is well-known throughout the world for his inspirational teaching. Dr. Gilligan has published extensively, and his books include Therapeutic Trances: The Co-Operation Principle In Ericksonian Hypnotherapy, The Courage to Love: Principles and Practices of Self-Relations Psychotherapy, The Legacy of Erickson, Walking In Two Worlds: The Relational Self In Theory, Practice, And Community, and The Hero’s Journey (w/ R. Dilts); Generative Trance: The Experience of Creative Flow; and Generative Coaching. He has worked with trauma as a psychotherapist for over 40 years.

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Website – Stephen Gilligan, PhD.

In this episode of Transforming Trauma, NARM Senior Trainer Brad Kammer is joined by Dr. Daniel Schiff, licensed psychologist in the Portland area and adjunct faculty member at several universities. Dr. Schiff has lectured widely on topics related to emotions, psychotherapy, and Reichian and Gestalt therapy. With over three decades of experience, he is considered an expert in somatic psychology and is known for his work with Contemporary Orgone (Reichian) Therapy, a relational and emotionally focused, character based somatic psychotherapy that addresses both the psychological and the physiological underpinnings of emotional distress.

Dr. Schiff reflects on his interest and training in various humanistic psychology perspectives, including Reichian and Gestalt Therapy. His master’s project was an exploration of Reichian therapy, and his doctoral dissertation was a study on the relationship between the inhibition of breathing and emotional repression. Now many years later, Dr. Schiff shares that he continues to evolve his understanding and psychotherapeutic approach, currently integrating information from modern neuroscience. He believes that this evolutionary process is in alignment with Wilhelm Reich’s approach as Reich was committed to ongoing study, evolution and advancement of his theories.

Dr. Schiff and Brad reflect on the tragic story of Dr. Wilhelm Reich and reminisce about Reich’s impact on the field of somatic psychotherapy and their own clinical work. They reflect on how Reich’s original work directly influenced somatic modalities such as Gestalt Therapy, Hakomi Psychotherapy, and Somatic Experiencing, as well as indirectly influenced a number of other models including EMDR. This reflection leads to Dr. Schiff sharing his perspective on the use of catharsis in psychotherapy, and how when not trauma-informed, expressive models can lead to dysregulation and overwhelm. However, he also shares his perspective that if therapies don’t include enough direct expressiveness, they may not lead to lasting change.  Together, Dr. Schiff and Brad reflect deeper on the current field and future trends of somatic psychotherapy.

We are grateful to Dr. Schiff for his incredible insight to the world of somatic psychology. We invite you to listen to the full episode to learn more about his approach to working with the breath and in the present moment as well as his advice for the next generation of psychologists.

About Dr. Daniel Schiff:

Dr. Daniel Schiff, is a licensed psychologist in private practice with 45 years of clinical experience in somatic psychotherapy from a Reichian and Gestalt perspective. He has lectured widely on topics related to emotions, psychotherapy, and Reichian and Gestalt therapy to both public and professional audiences, provide clinical seminars, training and supervision to mental health professionals. Dr. Schiff also offers a 4-year training program in Contemporary Orgone (Reichian) Therapy. 

In addition to his clinical work, Dr. Schiff has been an adjunct faculty member in psychology at Seattle Central Community College, Antioch University, and the Washington School of Professional Psychology (Argosy University – Seattle), and currently offers a course in somatic psychology at Lewis and Clark college.

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Website – Daniel Schiff, PHD