Category: Transforming Trauma Podcast

Within psychology, there is ongoing debate about the relationship between complex trauma and personality.  Developed by Dr. James Masterson, the Masterson Approach focuses on the development of personality, the “false self”, and introduced innovative treatment for schizoid, narcissistic and borderline personality disorders.  One therapist believes that genuine inquisitiveness and compassion are requisites for creating an environment where clients can explore their inner world, address personality disruption, and eventually “remove the false self.”

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth welcomes Dr. William Griffith, Director of The International Masterson Institute in Cape Town, South Africa. The pair discuss foundational aspects of the Masterson Approach, and specifically how trauma affects a client’s persistent dependence on “the false self.”

William also shares insights from his 25-year journey from young psychotherapist to established professional and, finally, head of an esteemed educational program. Having succeeded Dr. Judith Pearson as Director of the International Masterson Institute, William continues to build on her legacy, ensuring the Institute’s creative and empathetic guidance in treating personality disorders. He combines his leadership role at the Institute with an active clinical practice, offering expertise in working with patients who exhibit high-risk behaviors. William has also served on the teaching faculty of multiple South African universities delivering lectures and workshops globally. 

“All three of these character structures (schizoid, narcissistic and borderline personality disorders), presents with a unique split-object relation,” William says, emphasizing the premise of Masterson’s modality. “That self experience presents with different ways in relating or failing in relating with people.” William is sensitive to those relational failures. “We sacrifice a lot of ourselves to become a false self, so to speak,” he confides. “So, the essence, then, of the Masterson approach is to allow the real self to emerge and a person to be hopeful.”

While William admits that the Masterson Approach is a complex theory to distill within the confines of a podcast, he does an excellent job of highlighting its essence. “The aim of the therapy is to remove the defensive part, allow the person to let go of the false self defenses and for the real self to emerge,” he observes, adding, “and for the person to get in contact with that part of themselves that has been lost during his relating since birth.”

As this therapeutic relationship grows, the client is supported to move beyond their false self. “I think the most important thing for the therapist [is] neutrality, for the therapist to sit there and being able to hold the frame, hold the patient,” Willam says. “Masterson gave me a new respect for therapy as a treatment method. And I’ve seen the benefits. I’ve seen people improving, and I’ve seen people reentering life.” He hopes therapists take the time to develop their curiosity and let it guide their practice. “It’s as simple as just sitting there,” he says, “just being there.”

Transforming Trauma thanks William for sharing the Masterson Approach with our community. His dedication to treating personality disorders with compassion and clarity is a gift to clients and clinicians.

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

The Unanswered Self: The Masterson Approach To Healing Of Personality Disorder

GUEST CONTACT & BIO

The International Masterson Institute

William Griffith is a clinical psychologist, with over 25 years of experience in practice and extensive research. Having succeeded Dr. Judith Pearson as Director of the International Masterson Institute, Griffith now continues to build on her legacy, ensuring the Institute’s continued leadership in the treatment of personality disorders. Based in Cape Town, South Africa, Griffith combines his leadership role at the Institute with an active clinical practice, offering expertise in working with patients who exhibit high-risk behaviors. Griffith has also served on the teaching faculty of multiple South African universities, delivering lectures and workshops globally. William Griffith is grateful to be doing this work and is still humbled by humanity on a daily basis.

Healthy relationships, whether romantic, platonic, or professional, thrive when each party is committed to transparent, compassionate interactions. Creating healthier interactions requires a greater awareness of the conditioned, unconscious responses embedded in our interpersonal communication styles. One psychotherapist believes that we can create an environment for better relationships by identifying personality patterns and actively addressing the biases that each pattern elicits. 

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, CTTC Director and NARM® Senior Trainer Brad Kammer welcomes psychologist, author, and trainer Steven Kessler, MFT, to discuss the role that personality patterns play in our communication styles and how those patterns impact our relationships. The pair delve into the origins of these patterns and the unconscious “safety” tactics associated with each. Brad and Steven also examine strategies for developing an ability to listen and respond to one another in a more holistic and conscious manner.

Steven earned his Master’s in transpersonal psychology and has been a licensed psychotherapist for almost 30 years. He has pursued various spiritual and meditation practices, studying many different healing modalities and maps of personality. Since 1984, he has taught hundreds of groups and workshops in the US and internationally helping people heal their wounds and grow into their full adult selves. Steven’s bestselling book, The Five Personality Patterns, deepens the insights of character structure and presents its map of the human personality to the general public. In his latest book, How To Have Better Relationships, Steven outlines techniques for deepening interpersonal relationships based on the five personality patterns.

“I think it’s crucial for any therapist or anybody doing healing work or, frankly, any manager in a company, boss, anyone who wants to communicate with their coworkers, with their spouse or lover, with their family members…it’s important to realize that not everybody is automatically doing the same personality pattern that you do. They could be doing something totally different.” begins Steven. “We don’t experience the same world that whoever we’re interacting with experiences. So, you gotta know what slices they’re experiencing. You’re going to have to communicate with them in their world, in their language, in a way they understand.” 

Communication, observes Steven, becomes less complicated once we understand the motivations and self-preservation tactics behind each of the five personality patterns. That work begins by identifying our enduring pattern. “For most of us, we identify with our main pattern, whichever is strongest in us,” he says. “We identify so deeply that if you ask a person, ‘Why do you behave like that?’ they will say, ‘That’s just who I am.’ It’s become an identity structure. It’s so strong that working with them in therapy when they come to the possibility that they don’t have to behave that way, there can be a bit of an identity crisis.”

Steven and Brad discuss the origin of developmental theory and specifically character structures that originated with Dr. Wilhelm Reich, and was evolved over many decades into a greater understanding of personality patterns that impact us all.  Brad reflects on the developmental theory presented by the NeuroAffective Relational Model®, which is called the Adaptive Survival Styles, and how this is used to support the healing of complex trauma. They then discuss the similarities and differences of the NARM adaptive survival style framework and the personality patterns framework.

Steven discusses a shared perspective that by identifying our patterns, we can better understand others’ patterns or safety strategies. “Whenever a person is caught in any pattern, that pattern is distorting their perceptions. If you know how your habitual patterns are distorting your perceptions, you can lean the other way.” The shift, he says, can significantly improve any type of relationship. This understanding is critical in both the NARM clinical approach as well as how Steven approaches therapy with his clients.

Transforming Trauma is grateful to Steven for his warm and compassionate insights and for providing our community with a roadmap for creating more authentic relationships.

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

The Five Personality Patterns: Your Guide to Understanding Yourself and Others and Developing Emotional Maturity

How To Have Better Relationships: The Skills You Need, The Actions To Take Based On The 5 

Personality Patterns

Myers-Briggs

The Enneagram

Amadeus

Dr. Wilhelm Reich

GUEST CONTACT & BIO

The Five Personality Patterns

Steven Kessler has been studying people and their emotions since high school, where he attended plays to better understand human behavior. After a stint studying physics at MIT, followed by an undergraduate degree in acting from Boston University, and four years at the New England Repertory Theatre, his deep interest in the human psyche led him to earn an MA in Transpersonal Psychology. For over 30 years, he has been a licensed psychotherapist.

Steven has been studying different healing modalities and maps of personality, including Character Structure, the Enneagram, NLP, energy work, Thought Field Therapy, and EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques). He is a certified EFT Expert & Trainer. For over three decades, Steven has also pursued various spiritual and meditation practices, including 16 years in the Diamond Heart meditation school. For over 15 years, he has been a student of Lynda Caesara, studying Character Structure, the direct perception of energy, and shamanism in the lineage of Grandfather Two Bears and the Southern Seers tradition. Steven has taught hundreds of groups and workshops in the US and internationally, and recently has trained other therapists in the use of EFT. 

His bestselling book, The 5 Personality Patterns, deepens the insights into character structure and introduces its map of the human personality to the general public. In his latest book, How To Have Better Relationships, Steven outlines techniques for deepening interpersonal relationships based on the five personality patterns.

Connection and healing often happen amid our messiest, most vulnerable moments. The rawness of our experiences can create the space we need to welcome a new way of living, loving, and even learning. One clinical counselor has witnessed this truth repeatedly throughout her multifaceted career and personal life. Her ability to stay with discomfort and lend intuitive support has made her an effective NARM® Therapist and an outstanding NARM Training Assistant.

 On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth invites Lisa Gillispie LPCC-S, to share observations from her role as Lead Training Assistant for NARM Therapist Trainings run by the Complex Trauma Training Center (CTTC), and her multi-discipline career as a trauma-informed practitioner. The pair also discuss the ripple effect that NARM training has created in Lisa’s personal healing journey.

 “I was a bodyworker for over 20 years,” says Lisa, whose career in the healing arts began after an injury sidelined her dreams of becoming a professional dancer. “I specialized in cranial sacral therapy, supporting people and working with emotions causing constriction in the body. That was really fascinating to me, how emotions would be held in the body and then show up in different ways,  contributing to pain or tension patterns that they experienced.”

Lisa’s innate curiosity eventually led her to professional advancement and profound personal discovery. “Brad [Kammer, CTTC Director, and NARM® Senior Trainer] came to Columbus and taught an intro to developmental trauma and, later, an Intro to NARM. I remember just feeling these light bulbs were going off and having this realization of how much people’s developmental trauma really informed how they navigated more event-specific trauma. It really intrigued me,” she recalls, especially having experienced the effects of trauma on her clients. “We would be working with that from a bodywork perspective, and there would inevitably be something developmental that we would start bumping into.”

The workshop prompted Lisa to pursue a master’s degree in clinical mental health counseling. “I was lucky enough to go into graduate school with most of my NARM training,” she explains, citing Healing Developmental Trauma by NARM Creator Dr. Laurence Heller as incredibly helpful to her development in and outside of the classroom. “There was a clarity there that I found so helpful and supportive in terms of better understanding very important people to me, and also better understanding my own self and how I move through the world, how I engage in relationships with people for better or worse.”

Lisa’s experience as a dancer and bodyworker has made her an uncommonly perceptive Training Assistant within the NARM Therapist Trainings. “You start to tune into things,” she observes. “Unfortunately, so many people have experienced educational trauma, so there’s a lot that comes up when they’re starting a NARM training.” 

Lisa enjoys lending her support as students wade through the inevitable muddle of emotions. She welcomes students to trust themself and this dynamic healing process. “It’s so gratifying to see that unfolding of students and see them being able to take it in and see how that impacts them,” she says. “It’s also an incredible way for me to hone my own skills because it’s one thing to have a sense of something; it’s another to be able to articulate it and to convey it to somebody in a way that they can get it and start to connect the dots for themselves.”

Transforming Trauma is honored to have Lisa Gillispie as a community member. Her boundless empathy and natural talent for disseminating information are gifts to her students and clients.

GUEST CONTACT AND BIO

Website

Lisa Gillispie is a licensed professional clinical counselor in private practice in Columbus, Ohio. Lisa came to counseling as a second career following 25 years as a trauma-informed bodyworker specializing in craniosacral therapy.

Lisa is a NARM® Master Therapist, Somatic Experiencing Practitioner, and Lead Training Assistant for the Complex Trauma Training Center. She is also one of the trainers who teaches the Introduction to NARM webinars offered by CTTC. Lisa loves supporting other professionals in developing their skills for working with developmental trauma.

As a single parent to two kiddos, Lisa has found NARM invaluable for helping her grow her ability to meet the challenges of parenting with humor and kindness.

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

Waking the Tiger: Healing Trauma: The Innate Capacity to Transform Overwhelming Experiences

A Chorus Line

Bernie Siegel, MD

Barbara Brennan

Healing Developmental Trauma: How Early Trauma Affects Self-Regulation, Self-Image, and the Capacity for Relationship

As awareness of complex trauma has grown, so has the need for leaders in the field to share their wisdom and tips for helping individuals, families and communities resolve complex trauma.  Over the past 5 years and 150 episodes, the Transforming Trauma podcast has been a platform for these voices of inspiration, hope, guidance and support. 

To celebrate our 150th episode. CTTC Director and NARM® Senior Trainer Brad Kammer joins host Emily Ruth to reminisce about the inspiring guests who have graced the 2024 season and the many heartfelt conversations that have shaped the show since its inception in January 2020.

“We try to balance getting people that are really well known in the field, like Gabor Maté, Judith Herman, Stephen Porges and Dick Schwartz, as well as people that have trained with us, and are maybe less well known or not known at all,” says Brad, referring to the catalog of diverse guests that Transforming Trauma has assembled over the last four years. While every single guest has brought so much to our community, Brad and Emily highlight several that have inspired them along the way.

This year, for example, we had our second and most expansive conversation with Dr. Jonathan Shedler, a leader in the current field of psychodynamic psychology. We also had a compelling episode featuring Alison Rapping, discussing her impactful work providing wrap-around services to formerly incarcerated women. The common feature of all of our guests is that in some way they are working to support the transformation of trauma.

Brad shared that he felt so excited to have Dr. Judith Herman on in 2024, a legend in the field of trauma. “She’s someone that’s influenced all of us,” he says. “To have the opportunity to hear from her at this stage of her career was such a gift.” Likewise, the conversation with Dr. Nancy McWilliams, another giant in the field of psychology, demonstrated the lineage of a teacher passing on wisdom from her 50-year career to multiple generations of practitioners.

Some episodes feature a guest or topic that speaks to us in ways we might not have anticipated. Emily cites her conversation with Dr. Karen Maroda as particularly activating in this way. “There was some challenging material in there in a way that really landed for me that I know I needed.” Dr. Maroda’s focus on countertransference for psychotherapists becomes so important for anyone working with relational issues and trauma.  Emily was also moved by her conversation with Dr. Daniel Morehead and his invitation to greet neurodivergence with curiosity and humility.

Brad recalls his episode with Jessica Britt as an especially enlightening conversation. He appreciated their shared interest in the interplay of psychology and spirituality, and the alignment between what Jessica teaches, Diamond Approach, and what Brad teaches, the NeuroAffective Relational Model. 

Laura Sorte and Kami Black are therapists who have championed trauma-informed approaches at their respective residential facilities in New York and Utah. Their episodes highlight the potential of NARM to change systems of healing.

Dr. Nadine Macaluso is a trauma-bond expert with a rather famous backstory, being the ex-wife of the real-life “Wolf on Wall Street”. Nadine’s passion for supporting women through similar situations is what makes her a favorite repeat guest.

Chloé Valdary, a public educator and anti-racism activist, introduced to our community her groundbreaking approach to organizational diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives, called the Theory of Enchantment.  Blending social justice with depth psychology and popular culture, we have since integrated Chloé’s framework into our organizational structure at the Complex Trauma Training Center. 

If intentionality is the show’s guiding light, then courage is its path. We’re honored to have held space for deeply personal journeys of grief, pain, healing, and recovery, as evidenced by Brad’s conversation with human rights campaigner Yasmine Mohammed. Brad was impacted by her book Unveiled, and says, “she’s someone I’ve looked up to for quite a while now, and I was just so inspired.”

We also learn so much from those who find their courage in grief, like Heidi Winn and Adam Angel, who shared about their parenting journeys and losses.  Brad was also deeply honored and moved to share a heartfelt conversation with Bill Loke as he was navigating his last few months of life. Bill passed shortly after their conversation and his wisdom, heart and soul lives on as part of Transforming Trauma.

Transforming Trauma has many people to thank for its success. We’d like to thank Dr. Laurence Heller, creator of NARM, who has been a frequent guest and also taught many people who have been featured on the podcast. A special thank you goes out to the behind-the-scenes folks, including the team at the Creative Imposter Studios, Executive Producer Brad Kammer, and our wonderful host Emily Ruth.  We look forward to the next 150 episodes and thank all of you for joining us. 

EPISODES MENTIONED 

2023: The Podcast Year In Review with NARM Training Director Brad Kammer and Host Emily Ruth

A Pathway to Peace in the Fight Against Oppression and Religious Trauma with Yasmine Mohammed

What Good Psychotherapy Looks Like With Dr. Jonathan Shedler

Emotional Engagement in the Therapeutic Relationship With Dr. Karen Maroda

Addiction Recovery within a Trauma-Informed Community with Laura Sorte of Release Recovery

Empowering Adolescent Females in Residential Treatment With Kami Black of ROOTs Transition

Post-Traumatic Growth for Women Leaving Prison with Alison Rapping

Self-Acceptance in the Aftermath of Trauma Bonds with Dr. Nadine Macaluso

An Adventure in Consciousness Through the Diamond Approach with Jessica Britt

From Pain to Purpose: Navigating the Pressures of Fatherhood, Isolation and Loss with Adam Angel

A Mother’s Journey into Finding Effulgence through the NARM Process of Resolving Grief with Heidi Winn

Men’s Groups, Toxic Masculinity and Developmental Trauma with Dr. Martin Lemon

Listening to What Survivors Need to Address Sexual Trauma and Complex PTSD with Dr. Judith Herman

Personality and the Alchemy of Therapeutic Change with Nancy McWilliams, PhD

Love as a Pathway for Resolving Conflict and Bigotry with Chloé Valdary

Honoring Neurodivergence With Curiosity and Humility With Daniel Morehead, MD

Authenticity, Freedom, and Living More Intentionally with Bill Loke

Healing Complex Trauma Through Music with Nick Larson of Proxima Parada

The Power of Creative Expression in Healing Trauma with Jeanette LeBlanc

NARM & Heartfulness with Dr. Laurence Heller and Brad Kammer

ADDITIONAL MENTIONS

Free Hearts Free Minds

Release Recovery

ROOTs Transitions

Run Like Hell: A Therapist’s Guide To Recognizing, Escaping, And Healing From Trauma Bonds

Diamond Approach

Esalen Institute

Proxima Parada

NARM Training Institute

Head Heart Biz Therapy

The Creative Impostor Studios

The best time to work on becoming an emotionally mature partner is before entering an intimate relationship. That guidance is especially important for people who have a history of relational and developmental trauma. The second best opportunity for growth arrives in the form of triggers – those adverse emotional responses that blur the distinction between past (our childhood experiences) and present (our adult partnerships). One psychotherapist invites us to think of triggers as trailheads, often uncomfortable but informative starting points in shifting deep-seated and problematic relational patterns.

On this episode of Transforming Trauma, host Emily Ruth welcomes Dr. David Richo, PhD, MFT, psychotherapist, teacher, workshop leader, and writer, to share wisdom from his 50+ years of helping people identify and resolve relationship challenges that often mirror or repeat issues from their childhood such as fears of abandonment or jealousy. Dr. Richo combines Jungian, poetic, and mythic perspectives in his work with the intention of integrating the psychological and the spiritual.

Dr. Richo shares a seemingly universal phenomenon that the past informs the present. Within psychology, this process may be referred to as transference or projection, and these can lead to problematic relational enactments where the past relational imprints impact one’s present relationship in harmful ways.  “I saw the connection between so many of our triggers and early childhood traumas, or even recent traumas, in relationships. We keep shuffling between past and present.” Dr. Richo explains that people subconsciously keep choosing to partner with a composite of the person who originally traumatized them. “It’s the psyche’s gross rather than subtle way of rubbing your nose in the need to work something out from a trauma that you haven’t fully dealt with.”

Dr. Richo posits that our relationship challenges often stem from the ongoing search to fulfill childhood needs, which he calls The Five A’s: attention, appreciation, acceptance, affection, and allowing. “If one or more or all were missing in early life, then you wouldn’t have learned how to give and receive them. Nor would you know how to be okay with receiving just a moderate dose of them. You would be craving, like a bottomless pit, to get more and more attention because that’s what you missed out on. And,” he cautions, “any person who sees that you’re someone feverishly and inappropriately craving constant attention and still wants you is not a healthy partner either.”

The good news, according to Dr. Richo, is that people with complex trauma (C-PTSD) can find and participate in healthy, secure adult relationships. “You have to do the psychological work that helps you look at what happened in the past and make sense of it. Not blame your parents, but certainly see that they are accountable.  But most of all, grieve what you missed. Let it go. Give it to yourself and ask only for a reasonable amount of it from a partner.”

Transforming Trauma is grateful to Dr. David Richo for sharing his decades of professional and spiritual wisdom with our community. His gentle guidance reminds us that intimate relationships built on loving kindness are possible when we acknowledge our trauma and actively engage in our healing journeys.

GUEST CONTACT AND BIO

Website

Dr. David Richo, PhD, MFT, is a psychotherapist, teacher, workshop leader, and writer who works in Santa Barbara and San Francisco California. He combines Jungian, poetic, and mythic perspectives in his work with the intention of integrating the psychological and the spiritual. His books and workshops include attention to Buddhist and Christian spiritual practices. Richo received his BA in psychology from Saint John’s Seminary in Brighton, Massachusetts, in 1962, his MA in counseling psychology from Fairfield University in 1969, and his PhD in clinical psychology from Sierra University in 1984. Since 1976, Richo has been a licensed marriage, family, and child counselor in California. In addition to practicing psychotherapy, Richo teaches in a number of places, including Santa Barbara City College, the University of California at Berkeley, Esalen Institute, Spirit Rock Buddhist Center, Pacifica Graduate Institute, and Santa Barbara Graduate Institute. He is currently a clinical supervisor for the Community Counseling Center in Santa Barbara, California.

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

The Body Keeps The Score

Triggers

When The Past Is Present

St. Augustine Confessions

How To Be An Adult In Relationships

Shambhala Publications