Category: Transforming Trauma Podcast

In this episode of Transforming Trauma, our host Sarah Buino welcomes NARM Therapist and Accessible Yoga instructor Colleen Millen to dive into and discuss the theme of consent. Throughout the episode, Colleen shares how her understanding of what consent means has deepened through her relationship with yoga and through her ongoing study of the NeuroAffective Relational Model (NARM). 

Each episode of Transforming Trauma begins with our host Sarah asking, “What would you like listeners to get out of our conversations today?” This is inspired by the NeuroAffective Relational Model, as NARM sessions always begin with asking: What are you wanting for yourself out of this time? Colleen and Sarah unpack the ways that consent is embodied by these questions. They place the client in the role of deciding where to go and what will be discussed, allowing them to guide the session rather than be prescribed what they need to work on. Colleen was drawn to NARM by this focus on consent, and it has become the value around which she organizes both her therapeutic and yoga practices.

Colleen shares honestly that at first she was reticent to join the NARM training because of a traumatic experience that she had in a previous training community. She shares that she had been part of a yoga healing community where consent was not represented, and where “there were some cultic dynamics that created power differentials that were very, very difficult and abusive.” She left that yoga community and continued to work as a therapist while she continued to heal from the experience of betrayal. After decades of dedicated yoga practice, she began asking herself “Do I want to teach yoga at all?” 

Through this process of self-referencing and self-healing, she discovered the deeper aspects of yoga that continued to call to her, which led her toward trauma-informed yoga, and a new branch of yoga called Accessible Yoga. She describes that Accessible Yoga is specifically designed to place the student at the center of their own relationship with their practice. Colleen shares the deep resonance that she found in Accessible Yoga. “[It gets] back to the roots of yoga [and is] what yoga, in my opinion, is supposed to be about. Which is… our community liberation. We can’t have liberation without the people and systems around us being liberated.” In this way, Colleen re-discovered her relationship with yoga by placing the emphasis on trusting the participants to decide, using a language of choice, and supporting the agency of students.  

It was from this place of rediscovery and renegotiation that Colleen discovered NARM. She described that she felt terrified, due to the betrayal and abuse of her previous yoga community, while at the same time a deep desire to learn and connect at the NARM training.  Her experience of volunteering to do a NARM demonstration in front of the class was what transformed her understanding of what consent is, and how it functions in healing from complex trauma. She felt what it was to have her consent truly respected by the therapist/trainer. She reports, “Consent was honored throughout the process… [the therapist/trainer] really heard the essential wounding I had there. And he gave me a choice.” From that time on, this has become the reflection around which Colleen has oriented her work as a therapist and as a yoga instructor: “How do I offer consent? How do I ask for it? How do I orient myself to that in the world?”

The embodiment of these questions is exactly the learning that Colleen was looking for in a professional training, and that NARM has integrated into every level. From the initial question, to changing course in the middle of a session, to the mentorship and coaching available to students throughout the training, consent has always been central to her learning in the NARM process. And as a Yoga Instructor, she now practices through a lens that encourages self-referencing and choice. 

Sarah and Colleen close their conversation by connecting around the respectful and caring relationship that is created with clients through honoring their consent and their agency, and how this quality creates such essential healing with people who have experienced complex trauma. As they reflect on their conversation, another element of NARM emerged for them – by bringing awareness to consent, an individual’s relationship to it will naturally deepen.

“I think the only thing we can do is to keep pushing back against these narratives because they’re not going to go away…We have to challenge them. We need to do so more visibly and more consistently and more forcefully.” ~Dani Ishai Behan

In this next Jewish “High Holiday” episode, NARM Training Director Brad Kammer welcomes author Dani Ishai Behan to Transforming Trauma to discuss the nuances of the Jewish experience in Diaspora, and specifically the challenges around years of ethnic oppression, anti-Semitism and intergenerational trauma.

Dani, a writer for the Times of Israel focuses his writing on the post-colonial traumas and anti-Semitism faced by Jews, and has become an advocate for reclaiming Jewish identity, as he advocates for the inclusion of Jews as an indigenous population of the Middle East (specifically, the Judean region, now referred to as Israel by the Jewish people). 

This isn’t solely a religious or political aim for Dani, but a deeply personal one.  As a child, Dani was largely disconnected from his Jewish identity, associating it through the traumatic retelling of Ashkenazi Jews who recounted the horrors of anti-Semitism in Europe in the 1800 and 1900s, as his ancestors were forced to live in squalid conditions, alienated from the mainstream society, and constantly endured individual and state-organized attacks (“pogroms”) which culminated in the Holocaust where 1/3 of the world Jewish population was murdered.  In his earlier life, Dani was involved in the Punk Rock community and was surrounded by people that were fervently anti-Zionist, the level to which made him question that specific hatred toward one group of people. The unease prompted Dani to look inward to his own relationship to being Jewish, and he started asking questions like: Why did my Jewish family look different from other “white” families? Why did the neighbors treat my Jewish family differently from other “white” families? He realized that something about his “being Jewish” had always nagged at him on a cellular level and he began to seek answers.

One answer was about the experience of whiteness in America, something that Dani had always wondered about with the Jewish side of his family.  They were dark-skinned with curly hair and other Middle Eastern features, and were often taken to be other ethnicities. Dani and Brad reflect on the errors of lumping Jews in as being White. Dani says, “There’s a difference between white-passing and actually being white,” and goes on to painfully describe the many different ways Jews have attempted to pass as White in Europe and the US through various skin-lightening creams, straightening their hair, attempting to reverse their circumcision and use plastic surgery to change their Middle Eastern features, in addition to changing their names, running from their religious and ethnic practices and working hard to assimilate into the mainstream. But no matter how much Jews attempted to assimilate, it never allowed them to escape the constant threats toward their annihilation.

Through research and in-depth discussions, Dani began to put together pieces of the Jewish experience being expelled out of their native land of Judea and having to flee into countries around the world (the “Diaspora”). While he had always assumed that his Jewish Ashkenazi family was from Europe, and White, “we’re not actually from Europe or from Morocco or from North America or wherever. We’re indigenous to the land of Israel.” Dani began to understand that his family, and the Jewish lineage, were actually Middle Easterners who had been exiled to European countries in order to flee persecution from colonial invaders. 

This brings the conversation back to the current day in the United States and elsewhere where there is a strong movement to support and empower BIPOC (Black and Indigenous People of Color) who are fighting for a more equitable future. However, while these efforts to dismantle supremacist policies and systemic obstacles have been accepted on college campuses, within the social justice movement, and in many political groups, one ethnic group is often omitted from conversations centered on these complex traumas: the Jews. In fact, Jews are being labeled the colonizers of a native people (the Palestinians), which according to Dani’s research, is white-washing Jewish lineage and identity. And, yet another form of cultural trauma toward the Jews. While groups are working fervently against anti-Zionism, they are dismissing the right of an indigenous group to their native land and their collective right to self-determination.

While this could lead into a larger political discussion of the dynamics between the Palestinians and Israelis, Brad differentiates between the “political and the psychological”, and both Dani and Brad reflect on how these complex cultural and intergenerational traumas have and continue to impact them. And, they share the pain of the constant attack on their Jewish identity and the need for intergenerational trauma healing as a people.

“It’s been really confusing. It’s been painful.  And trying to sort this all out for myself is my own work in…really helping me become a better therapist and working with people that are dealing with racial, historical trauma, and cultural trauma, and also just trying to make sense of where we are and where we’re going in our society.”
~ Brad Kammer, Senior Faculty and Training Director of the NARM Training Institute

This special bonus episode of Transforming Trauma welcomes Brad Kammer, NARM Training Institute Senior Faculty and Training Director, to introduce listeners to a series of “High Holiday” episodes featuring two different Jewish leaders advocating for healing of cultural and intergenerational trauma for the Jewish people.  Brad begins by framing the next two episodes that will focus on the psychological journey and struggle for the Jewish people, as well as sharing about his experience coming to terms with his own Jewish identity through the healing of intergenerational and complex trauma.

Transforming Trauma host Sarah Buino asks Brad to start off by sharing about his own personal experience, something Brad likens to a “coming out”.  Brad recognizes that his career in working with complex trauma has been shaped by his own personal journey in healing from cultural and intergenerational trauma, and through this process, he feels he has been reclaiming his identity. Brad reflects, “I’ve spent my life hiding in many different ways and it’s come at a cost. And I guess this is part of my wanting to personally proclaim that I’m ready to address these issues…and not continue to pass it down.” 

This process has required him to face the realities of othering, objectifying, unwelcoming, scapegoating and existential threats. In his career as a teacher, for example, he says, “I walk into a room, I show up as a teacher and I’m immediately objectified and I’m put into a group that is usually considered “white male”.  That is not only NOT the group I identify with, but that has been the oppressor for my people for many, many centuries. Part of the trauma that Jews have suffered is having our identity taken from us and it being defined outside. And so when someone does that to me, it’s just a trigger for me.” At the same time, Brad acknowledges that he has used this “privilege” to get by in America. “Jews have tried over the years to act like they fit into the mainstream dominant culture, even though we never have. So me coming out when I’m afforded a certain kind of privilege…it feels scary.”  

No matter how much Jews have tried to fit in to the countries they have been forced to live in exile (the “Diaspora”), no matter where they went – Europe, Africa, Americas or elsewhere in the Middle East – Jews have long been objectified, vilified and attacked by the dominant culture. Part of the unresolved trauma for Jews, who have never been safe anywhere they have lived, is feeling that at any point they will be attacked and/or pushed out. Brad reflects, “There are people actively today that want to annihilate me and my family and my people, my children…And like, how do I reclaim that? How do we reclaim that without it being a strategy of fighting, which is what Jews are doing right now in Israel, or submitting, which didn’t go well for Jews…[with] one third of our population wiped out when we couldn’t fight back. And so we’re in a really difficult territory as an oppressed people who have suffered oppression for over 2,000 years now.”

The challenge Brad has faced as an American Jew is that while “right wing” groups have never been safe for Jews, and still aren’t, “left wing” groups have become increasingly unsafe for Jews as well.  Brad has been involved in social justice work for many years and is concerned by this recent turn toward Anti-Zionism, which is often inseparable from Anti-Semitism. Many “progressive” social justice groups are now identifying Jews as European, white colonizers, which is another attempt at eradicating the Jewish identity. 

Brad differentiates between the psychological and the political, by introducing us to the idea that while Zionism has become associated with the Israeli government, military and illegal activities against the Palestinian people, Zionism at its roots is not a political movement, but a collective psychological attempt of the Jewish people at self-determination. It’s an expression of the right for the Jewish people to exist. Brad speaks of it as an indigenous liberation movement, no different than the Tibetans wanting to return to their homeland after exile by the Chinese occupation. No matter where the Jews have lived during the Diaspora, they have spent many, many years now praying for return to their native, sacred land.  For Brad, this dislocation trauma, and the ensuing efforts at annihilating Jews wherever they went for several thousands of years, has left Jews with a heavy burden of intergenerational trauma.

Brad laments that the focus on politics and violence in the Israel/Palestine conflict furthers the problem, that it is too complex to solve simply through politics, and that we need to be looking underneath the political to the psychological, or what’s driving the never-ending conflict and violence. Understanding intergenerational trauma, and how this leads to objectification or self and other, is a place we start in NARM. “We’re not a behaviorally-oriented model because what we focus on is the internal experience that’s shaping the behaviors…And I think until we’re able to really grapple with the wounds in unresolved trauma on all sides, we’re not going to get anywhere.”

Healing complex trauma can be a vehicle for personal and collective transformation. Brad speaks to his process of reclaiming, contextualizing and decolonizing his own Jewish identity, using the NARM concept of “disidentification”.  This process of transforming his trauma-based identity has not been easy, but it has been affirming, healing and an opportunity for self-compassion and love. Brad also hopes that this can be an opportunity for increasing connection to the humanity within and between us all, despite all our differences.

“One of the things I really like about NARM is the fact that there’s this massive focus on connection and interconnectedness as something that can be healthy…That actually recognizes the fact that we as humans… we share a certain connectivity when we’re at our best.”  ~Cassandra Walker

In this episode, Transforming Trauma host Sarah Buino is joined by Cassandra (Cassie) Walker, LCSW (they/them), a Black, queer, activist, entrepreneur, and NARM Master Therapist-in-Training located in Chicago, Illinois. Throughout the episode, they discuss growth that’s possible throughout the trauma healing process, how the NeuroAffective Relational Model (NARM) supports the resolution of complex trauma issues including systemic and racial trauma, and the critical need for more understanding of intersectionality in the therapeutic field.

Cassie takes an anti-oppressive, anti-racist, trauma-informed, relational approach to discussing identity, trauma, mental wellness, and social justice. They highlight the need to address how the legacies of slavery and other unresolved cultural and historical trauma continue to impact current events and social structures. From the levels of societal institutions to our internal experiences, Cassie shares how NARM supports their understanding of how trauma-based adaptive patterns, once needed for surviving familial, cultural, and systemic trauma, lead to perpetuating cycles of oppression and pain.  Through providing therapy and education that focuses on embracing compassion, accountability, and authenticity, Cassie hopes to help people open themselves and their organizations to changes that improve personal awareness and institutional inclusion.

Throughout this episode, Sarah and Cassie explore NARM’s ability to focus beyond the individual and recognize and address the historically minimized or outright denied layers of intergenerational pain. Cassie shares, “The culture of Whiteness is built on creating coalitions to oppress and thus also disconnects white people from their heritage. And so that’s part of how we’re all getting screwed.”  Cassie then turns their reflections to the ongoing transgressions that Black, Indigenous, and People of Color (BIPOC) continue to experience on their journey toward mental wellbeing. The pair talk about the harmful dynamics that can be present between White therapists and their BIPOC clients. Cassie shares, “Without knowing the multifaceted nature of sitting in a mental health setting with a Black person as a White person, and even as a Black person or as a Latinx person – those dynamics, if you don’t know them, you’re really walking into a giant minefield that is packed with potential to harm.”

“NARM in my work has been an amazing tool, one of the most powerful tools, that I have found to help my Black clients heal themselves”, Cassie says. But, Sarah and Cassie challenge the long-standing issue of false neutrality by White therapists toward their Black and POC clients. Cassie shares that the therapeutic relationship must acknowledge and hold space for the intersections of trauma, identity, and mental wellness, and the value of having Black, Indigenous, and POC therapists in the trauma field. “NARM, and mental health in general, is not just for white people.”  Cassie shares their hope that NARM can provide all therapists with a roadmap to support healing from complex trauma, including recognizing the dynamics of cultural and racial trauma that so significantly impact individuals from marginalized and systemically oppressed communities, including BIPOC and LGBTQIA+. 

This episode also explores the role that community and spirituality play in both NARM philosophy and Black identity. Cassie reflects on the social, emotional, and spiritual need for connectedness, which is an organizing principle of NARM.  Cassie shares their perspective that white supremacy and capitalism have disconnected all people – Black, Indigenous, POC, and White – from their authenticity, and that NARM provides a hopeful approach to help restore connection to self and others through focusing on healing complex trauma.

In this episode of Transforming Trauma, our host Sarah Buino is joined by Leslie Filsinger, NARM therapist and Clinical Director at Spring Ridge Academy in Spring Valley, Arizona. Throughout their conversation, they talk about how the NeuroAffective Relational Model (NARM) supports the healing of developmental and complex trauma in adolescents, how adolescents can learn to develop their voice to find their internal truth, and how understanding complex trauma can create more compassion and grace within families.

Spring Ridge Academy is a private, all-girls therapeutic boarding school specializing in treating young women and their families in overcoming the impact of emotional and developmental injuries. Spring Ridge is trauma-informed and part of their mission is to educate the young women and their families about Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) and Complex Trauma (C-PTSD). Leslie defines developmental trauma, a key aspect of C-PTSD, as “anything less than nurturing — intentionally or unintentionally”. While the concept of Shock Trauma (PTSD) is widely recognized and understood, most parents do not understand the nature of Complex Trauma, and that what their children are dealing with is the impact of emotional, relational, and developmental trauma. 

Families often come to Spring Ridge Academy overwhelmed by fear, hopelessness and despair regarding their children.  Leslie shares how she and her team meet the families with compassion and understanding, but also using psychoeducation around Complex Trauma to support greater health within the family system.  By describing Complex Trauma to the parents, their understanding of their child’s experience can shift. Most parents arrive at Spring Ridge with the belief that their daughters are acting out, and within the NARM frame of C-PTSD, they begin to recognize these behaviors as reactions to the unresolved trauma their child has experienced . Leslie shares, “These symptoms and behaviors are maladaptive strategies. They are ways of managing something that is otherwise unmanageable”. When Leslie and her team share the idea that the child’s behavior could be a result of the trauma they’ve experienced, it creates a moment of awareness and expansion for the families. ”And that’s where the compassion and grace come in — it’s a beautiful thing and humbling to witness,” Leslie says.

Both Sarah and Leslie are NARM Therapists, and throughout the episode they define NARM concepts. Central to their conversation are the concepts of “Child Consciousness” and “Adult Consciousness”. As Sarah puts it, in NARM, Child Consciousness is “when we are living from a wounded child place” and relying on survival strategies that were once life-saving but are now obstacles in the way of health and well-being. Adult Consciousness, according to Sarah, is “when we’re able to give ourselves compassion and step out of our survival strategies.” Practicing NARM with adolescents is unique as young women are just beginning to develop into their capacity to be in their Adult Consciousness. Additionally, many parents struggle with this developmental period of adolescence, sending mixed messages to their children about the need for their children to be more autonomous and at the same time upset about the way they are defining themselves outside their family unit. In other words, wanting them to stay children but expecting them to be adults.

When working with her clients, Leslie focuses on helping these young women understanding themselves, their behaviors, and begin processing and resolving their unresolved trauma. From her NARM-informed perspective, Leslie describes what the process of this transformative work can look like: “Moments of stepping into our truth without being shackled by those strategies that limit us, or those self-limiting beliefs that box us in, or the shame and the guilt of the old narratives that are running– when we have those moments when we can step left for a moment and feel that.” 

Leslie describes the importance of therapists and other helping professionals in shifting away from the focus of fixing behaviors and instead bringing greater understanding to what is driving these maladaptive behaviors. Instead of meeting adolescents with the pressure to change, meeting them with curiosity, patience, understanding and compassion. At the same time, Leslie reminds us that as therapists, we are not the ones creating the change for these young women and their families, and not to overlook the strong intention of adolescents in connecting to their own will to heal and grow. Leslie also reminds us that true change does not come from the outside, and as a NARM Therapist she focuses on respecting and reinforcing her clients’ developing Adult Consciousness. As Leslie says, “We don’t [want to do the work] for them… we create the space and allow them to connect with their own internal truth.”