Transforming Trauma Episode 178: Inside-Out Learning and the SPACE Inner Development Program with CTTC Faculty Brad Kammer, Stefanie Klein, and Marcia Black
A podcast brought to you by the Complex Trauma Training Center
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What does it mean for trauma therapists to truly grow—not just in knowledge, but in deep presence and human connection? In this reflective episode, Brad Kammer, Stefanie Klein, and Marcia Black reunite for a candid look at the first year of the SPACE Program at the Complex Trauma Training Center. Together, they share what happens when a professional community focuses as much on therapists’ inner experience and vulnerability as on clinical skills. The discussion explores the profound shifts that emerge when therapists give themselves permission to receive support, reveal their struggles, and build safety through honest collective exploration. The group discusses the evolution of the program, participant impact, and where the vision is headed next. They also reveal how modeling openness, exploring therapeutic enactments, and inviting feedback have created a uniquely dynamic community. Listeners hear firsthand stories of the tenderness, courage, and transformation that arise when “people feel able to be vulnerable, be open, receive support, to ask for support, and…want to go more deeply into those challenging and dark spaces.” Brad Kammer, LMFT, LPCC, is the Training Director and Senior Trainer at the Complex Trauma Training Center (CTTC), where he develops advanced training and mentorship programs for mental health professionals working with complex trauma. Stefanie Klein, LCSW, is a NARM Master Therapist and Somatic Experiencing Practitioner with 30 years of psychotherapy experience, specializing in trauma and anxiety. Dr. Marcia Black is a Licensed Clinical Psychologist, NARM Senior Training Assistant, and NARM Faculty Committee member, and has been in private practice for over 40 years in SF and the East Bay, specializing in treating complex and developmental trauma and other psychological conditions, including depression and loss, anxiety, relationship issues, and addiction. One theme that emerges powerfully in the conversation is the essential humanizing of therapists within the community. Brad observes, “So many therapists are really wanting to do a great job for their clients and just even if we’re not thinking so much about ourselves…our clients are gonna benefit so much when we’re getting our own support.” Stefanie notes the ongoing paradox: “Those people are often not asking for and receiving support, whether that’s just community and hearing other people’s experiences or their own psychotherapy or their own consultation.” Marcia reflects on how being “supported and inspired by the courage and vulnerability of each other” enables everyone to explore unknown places within themselves. Participants describe moments that “sneak up on me and you’re like, whoa, that was much more powerful than I thought it was gonna be,” highlighting the sacred, surprising quality of collective work. From modeling vulnerability to running intersubjective explorations in pods, to integrating group feedback and shaping new experiential offerings, Brad, Stefanie, and Marcia illustrate how therapist growth flourishes in relational contexts. They speak to the reality of therapeutic enactments, the shame and complexity that often keep challenges hidden, and the relief that comes from openly sharing and unpacking these experiences together. The group’s commitment to “co-creation with the space participants” and to continually evolving the program based on lived experience and honest dialogue reinforces the mission: to nurture a field where therapists can “be intimate and real and authentic,” deepen their own enjoyment and sense of meaning in the work, and become more effective supports for clients. As the SPACE program enters its second year, new topics, immersive weekends, and opportunities for deeper integration are on the horizon—always shaped by the needs and voices of therapists themselves. “We just expect it to keep evolving, as we go, while again, we’re adding more things to the same intention,” shares Stefanie. The conversation closes with gratitude for the shared journey and a reaffirmation that therapists’ willingness to invest in their own presence not only transforms their clinical work, but also reverberates throughout their lives and communities.
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GUEST BIO
Brad Kammer is the Training Director and Senior Trainer at the Complex Trauma Training Center. He is a licensed marriage and family therapist, somatic experiencing practitioner, and NARM master therapist who has been in the trauma field for 25 years. He has co-authored The Practical Guide for Healing Developmental Trauma: Using the Neuroaffective Relational Model to Address Adverse Childhood Experiences and Resolve Complex Trauma, which presents one of the first comprehensive therapeutic models for addressing adverse childhood experiences (ACEs) and complex post-traumatic stress disorder.
Stefanie Klein is the Assistant Training Director and Trainer in the Complex Trauma Training Center. She’s a licensed clinical social worker, NARM master therapist, consultant, and trainer. She has spent over 25 years in her Los Angeles private practice specializing in treating adults with trauma and anxiety disorders. Stephanie is excited to be part of the leadership of the Complex Trauma Training Center. She looks forward to continuing to support therapists who are looking to have more ease and efficacy in their practice.
Marcia Black is a Licensed Clinical Psychologist and CTTC Faculty Committee member. As a NARM® Senior Training Assistant, Marcia has a passion for mentoring students and Training Assistants, and nurturing the growth of the community of graduates committed to ongoing learning. Marcia is also a NARM Master Therapist and has been in private practice for over 40 years in SF and the East Bay, specializing in treating complex and developmental trauma, and other psychological conditions. Coming from a background in Attachment, Relational and Intersubjective approaches, as well as experience as a Somatic Experiencing practitioner and SE Assistant, Marcia finds the NARM model offers an invaluable and inspiring contribution to understanding and approaching the psychotherapy process, not only in working with C-PTSD but also more broadly. Marcia’s mentorship is based in a relational approach that invites an exploration into the therapist’s inner experience and growth, alongside that of the client’s. Marcia is excited about supporting ongoing training, consultation, and mentorship in her role at CTTC.
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